Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: Forest Keeper

***If God predestines everyone, and she overcame predestination, then she overcame God. The scriptures just don’t teach that man can overcome God, but these are the inevitable results with the idea of man being sovereign and autonomous.***

New Advent says:

The theory of predestination post prævisa merita
This theory defended by the earlier Scholastics (Alexander of Hales, Albertus Magnus), as well as by the majority of the Molinists, and warmly recommended by St. Francis de Sales “as the truer and more attractive opinion”, has this as its chief distinction, that it is free from the logical necessity of upholding negative reprobation. It differs from predestination ante prævisa merita in two points: first, it rejects the absolute decree and assumes a hypothetical predestination to glory; secondly, it does not reverse the succession of grace and glory in the two orders of eternal intention and of execution in time, but makes glory depend on merit in eternity as well as in the order of time. This hypothetical decree reads as follows: Just as in time eternal happiness depends on merit as a condition, so I intended heaven from all eternity only for foreseen merit. — It is only by reason of the infallible foreknowledge of these merits that the hypothetical decree is changed into an absolute: These and no others shall be saved.

This view not only safeguards the universality and sincerity of God’s salvific will, but coincides admirably with the teachings of St. Paul (cf. 2 Timothy 4:8), who knows that there “is laid up” (reposita est, apokeitai) in heaven “a crown of justice”, which “the just judge will render” (reddet, apodosei) to him on the day of judgment. Clearer still is the inference drawn from the sentence of the universal Judge (Matthew 25:34 sq.): “Come, ye blessed of my Father, possess you the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry, and you gave me to eat” etc. As the “possessing” of the Kingdom of Heaven in time is here linked to the works of mercy as a condition, so the “preparation” of the Kingdom of Heaven in eternity, that is, predestination to glory is conceived as dependent on the foreknowledge that good works will be performed. The same conclusion follows from the parallel sentence of condemnation (Matthew 25:41 sq.): “Depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry, and you gave me not to eat” etc. For it is evident that the “everlasting fire of hell” can only have been intended from all eternity for sin and demerit, that is, for neglect of Christian charity, in the same sense in which it is inflicted in time. Concluding a pari, we must say the same of eternal bliss. This explanation is splendidly confirmed by the Greek Fathers. Generally speaking, the Greeks are the chief authorities for conditional predestination dependent on foreseen merits. The Latins, too, are so unanimous on this question that St. Augustine is practically the only adversary in the Occident. St. Hilary (In Ps. lxiv, n. 5) expressly describes eternal election as proceeding from “the choice of merit” (ex meriti delectu), and St. Ambrose teaches in his paraphrase of Rom., viii, 29 (De fide, V, vi, 83): “Non enim ante prædestinavit quam præscivit, sed quorum merita præscivit, eorum præmia prædestinavit” (He did not predestine before He foreknew, but for those whose merits He foresaw, He predestined the reward).

***If she did the overcoming, then her faith was self-generated. However, the Bible teaches that faith comes from God.***

Catholic dogma of predestination keeps the golden mean, because it regards eternal happiness primarily as the work of God and His grace, but secondarily as the fruit and reward of the meritorious actions of the predestined. The process of predestination consists of the following five steps: (a) the first grace of vocation, especially faith as the beginning, foundation, and root of justification; (b) a number of additional, actual graces for the successful accomplishment of justification; (c) justification itself as the beginning of the state of grace and love; (d) final perseverance or at least the grace of a happy death; (e) lastly, the admission to eternal bliss. If it is a truth of Revelation that there are many who, following this path, seek and find their eternal salvation with infallible certainty, then the existence of Divine predestination is proved (cf. Matthew 25:34; Revelation 20:15). St. Paul says quite explicitly (Romans 8:28 sq.): “we know that to them that love God, all things work together unto good, to such as, according to his purpose, are called to be saints. For whom he foreknew, he also predestinated to be made conformable to the image of his Son; that he might be the first born amongst many brethren. And whom he predestinated, them he also called. And whom he called, them he also justified. And whom he justified, them he also glorified.” (Cf. Ephesians 1:4-11) Besides the eternal “foreknowledge” and foreordaining, the Apostle here mentions the various steps of predestination: “vocation”, “justification”, and “glorification”. This belief has been faithfully preserved by Tradition through all the centuries, especially since the time of Augustine. ***

The dogma of double predestination assumes that God is the author of sin and death. We reject that. If God gives the whole world His grace, then He has made it possible for everyone to be saved.


5,896 posted on 05/28/2008 1:37:49 PM PDT by MarkBsnr ( I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5895 | View Replies ]


To: MarkBsnr; kosta50
[All quotes from New Advent on: "The theory of predestination post prævisa merita" unless otherwise indicated] It differs from predestination ante prævisa merita in two points: first, it rejects the absolute decree and assumes a hypothetical predestination to glory ...

Is our God a God of absolutes or of hypotheticals?

... secondly, it does not reverse the succession of grace and glory in the two orders of eternal intention and of execution in time, but makes glory depend on merit in eternity as well as in the order of time.

Eternal glory by merit? OK.

This hypothetical decree reads as follows: Just as in time eternal happiness depends on merit as a condition, so I intended heaven from all eternity only for foreseen merit.

It appears that God is leaving out somebody pretty important here. Maybe the name slipped His mind. :) I hope that I am just misunderstanding this whole thing.

It is only by reason of the infallible foreknowledge of these merits that the hypothetical decree is changed into an absolute: These and no others shall be saved.

The fatal flaw in this is that it only potentially works if God created, and then turned His back completely on His creation and just watched what happened. If one believes, as I do and I "think" all Catholics do, that God is active in our world, then God is foreseeing His own actions. Therefore He is already a part of the action and CANNOT rely solely on what He foresees as the actions of others to make His predestination determinations. He's already involved. The hypothetical thus falls apart.

As the “possessing” of the Kingdom of Heaven in time is here linked to the works of mercy as a condition, so the “preparation” of the Kingdom of Heaven in eternity, that is, predestination to glory is conceived as dependent on the foreknowledge that good works will be performed.

A perfect example of what I'm saying. This theory requires that good works are done TOTALLY APART from God. But if good works are God working through us, then the whole thing reverts back to the Reformed position on predestination. It makes no logical sense for God to predestine based on foreseen good works, IF God was involved in those good works.

Mark: The dogma of double predestination assumes that God is the author of sin and death. We reject that. If God gives the whole world His grace, then He has made it possible for everyone to be saved.

Then you don't accept the definition of double predestination by those who believe in it. You redefine it and disagree with THAT. This has nothing to do with us. Double predestination means that God in His sovereignty infallibly predestined some to glory by giving them saving grace. By logical extension, it also means that God did not predestine others to eternal glory because He did not give them saving grace. That's pretty much it. Where is God authoring evil in any of this? Do you hypothetically call God evil for choosing not to give someone saving grace? If so, on what basis? God DOES give SOME grace (or blessings) to all men, but not saving grace.

5,927 posted on 05/29/2008 3:41:30 PM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5896 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson