Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: Forest Keeper; MarkBsnr; Dr. Eckleburg
Within the context of the conversation I used one of the four different but correct uses of the concept of the word "saved" that the Bible either explicitly or implicitly uses. I listed them recently. I will again if you like

And I can (again) give you a list of all things the Bible says that save us. The point is that those who are predestined to be saved are not born unsaved. Therefore we are not all born "unsaved." Being saved, no matter what cherry-picked meaning you wish to attach to the word, means just that, and is "as good as" having been saved.

If you are predestined to be saved you will be saved (acc. to Reformed theology) and you have been saved before you even existed, so at your birth you were never lost.

5,878 posted on 05/27/2008 9:21:33 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5874 | View Replies ]


To: kosta50; MarkBsnr; Dr. Eckleburg
The point is that those who are predestined to be saved are not born unsaved. Therefore we are not all born "unsaved." Being saved, no matter what cherry-picked meaning you wish to attach to the word, means just that, and is "as good as" having been saved.

If that is the case, then one could say that when we are born, none of us needs Christ or any faith in Him, since we are already saved. Doesn't that logically follow? I mean, I see what you are saying, and under the Reformed view of predestination your statement "could" be seen as correct. However, that leaves a ton of explaining to do as to what God does through time, such as what I asked above. Therefore, we don't frame it that way.

God's predestination IS a LOCK, and included in that lock are the things that happen during life such as the giving of grace and faith, and perseverance. This assumes that God is sovereign and His promises are good. So, it would be complete error for anyone to argue that if the predestined are "saved" when born that they do not need Christ or faith. Those certainties within time are included with the predestination.

Therefore, for these reasons, even given the way you framed it, in a normal conversation we will say that all are born lost and need to come to faith, EVEN THOUGH it is a lock for the elect. I believe that is the best way to frame it especially when talking with people of other faiths, or lost people in general. As far as we know, all people start out equally lost since none of us knows who the elect are.

5,901 posted on 05/28/2008 9:43:54 PM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5878 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson