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To: Forest Keeper; MarkBsnr
What the Bible says is the same as knowing the Ten Commandments, but without having the ability to carry them out perfectly, on our own. It is enough to avoid excuse, but it is not enough for salvation. Salvation comes by grace only given to some.

No, salvation comes from knowing the Ten Commandments and wanting in your heart at all times to obey them, even if you fail. Honestly try even if you honestly fail.

The whole of verse 10, which you omit, says that the Covenant is with the "House of Israel". Paul shows us who the House of Israel is, all believers, not Jews by birth.

That is Paul's invention, and I would say a necessary one in order to save the Church from extinction in Israel. And how good that invention worked! You think that what I am saying is negative. It's not. It only shows that the narrow (OT) idea of what constitutes the "people of God" is obsolete and that the fullness of God's revelation through Christ dying for everyone's sins reveals that God desires to save all men, not just the Jews.  

As far as the book of Hebrews is concerned, it wasn't written by St. Paul and to the best of my knowledge does not potentially include all the people in the concept of Israel.

By Christ's work He has forgiven all the sins of all believers, not all people. Otherwise, you would have salvation being completely determined by the actions of man.

By dying on the cross He took the sins of the whole world on His soul. That freed everyone  who ever lived, lives and will live to come to God. But in order to come to God, we must respond to His call and follow Him. But in order to respond to His call, we must be free. And Christ made everyone free. Those who choose to follow God or not to follow Him do so on their own. They are free to serve whomever they wish.

5,860 posted on 05/27/2008 5:41:07 AM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50; MarkBsnr
No, salvation comes from knowing the Ten Commandments and wanting in your heart at all times to obey them, even if you fail. Honestly try even if you honestly fail.

So for you the road to salvation is paved with good intentions??? :)

FK: "The whole of verse 10, which you omit, says that the Covenant is with the "House of Israel". Paul shows us who the House of Israel is, all believers, not Jews by birth."

That is Paul's invention, and I would say a necessary one in order to save the Church from extinction in Israel. And how good that invention worked! You think that what I am saying is negative. It's not. It only shows that the narrow (OT) idea of what constitutes the "people of God" is obsolete and that the fullness of God's revelation through Christ dying for everyone's sins reveals that God desires to save all men, not just the Jews.

I think it's negative because it raises up man and diminishes God. You have been telling me that God's Holy word was written by fallible men all on their own, and most of what they wrote was flat out wrong factually, and even spiritually in many cases. You have men like Paul determining spiritual things all on their own, as marketing techniques. That raises men above God, which is always negative.

Those who choose to follow God or not to follow Him do so on their own. They are free to serve whomever they wish.

That is definitely my understanding of the Apostolic faith, so I'm glad I had that right.

5,898 posted on 05/28/2008 6:00:53 PM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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