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To: kosta50; MarkBsnr
FK: "All men are sinners and deserve hell. Period. God has predestined to save some, but not all, despite what they deserve."

False! Hell was not created for men but for the devil and his angels. (cf Mat 25:41). That some men will end up there is because they will decide to follow the devil (by choice). It's their decision, not God's.

The only thing wrong with this part of your statement is the word "FALSE"! :) That the original purpose of hell was for fallen angels is IRRELEVANT to the fact that men go there now, and deserve to after the Fall. Hell was created before the Fall, right? But for the rest, you're mostly right, men go to hell by their own choices. (I would only add that original sin by iteself IS enough to condemn.)

We have been freed by Christ, who is the New Covenant, to either come to Him or not.

Christ frees the elect to do good. The Truth is only given to some. The non-elect are not free to do good, but are free to do evil.

FK: "I mean, if I and a non-believer were up for the same job, and God decided to reward me, then the other guy (who was more qualified) was interfered with."

What makes you think a believer is any better than the non-believer? How prideful of you!

Please re-read my example. In it I say that the other guy, the non-believer, is MORE qualified for the job than me. I was just noting that others can be "negatively" affected by the blessings God gives to His children. IOW, what God does here on earth has ramifications far beyond our ability to comprehend. Everyone is affected by God's actions. That can be seen as "interference", which you argue against.

God does intercede if our will is in harmony with His and our intentions are pure.

Yes, and in the whole that affects everyone.

5,850 posted on 05/26/2008 7:27:06 PM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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To: Forest Keeper; MarkBsnr
I would only add that original sin by iteself IS enough to condemn.

In that case, the aborted infants and infants who die after birth all go to hell in your book.

Christ frees the elect to do good. The Truth is only given to some. The non-elect are not free to do good, but are free to do evil

We don't share the same faith, FK. Christ died for the sins of the whole world, thereby freeing all men to come to God. Those who don't, condmen themsleves because God doens't force; He simply lets them be what their nature is, as like to remind us.

IOW, what God does here on earth has ramifications far beyond our ability to comprehend

That is very, very, very likely, FK. :) If there is one thing we learn in life it is that our comprehension is limited.

Please re-read my example. In it I say that the other guy, the non-believer, is MORE qualified for the job than me. I was just noting that others can be "negatively" affected by the blessings God gives to His children

I apologize if I didn't understand your point. God predestines everyone, challenging us to do the right things to overcome our destination and meet on that narrow path to God. Those who are abudantly blessed are to humble themsleves, the rich are to sell or give what they have in abundance , and the disavantaged are not to wallow in self pitty but pull themselves in faith out of their predicament.

Remember the story of the Samaritan woman giving Christ wanter. Her predicament was not to be saved, having been born a Samaritan. But she overcame predestination and was saved by recognizing the Lord even though she might not have, had she stuck to her rleigion.

What I mean by faith, FK, is an increidble example of a blind Orthodox woman who, having heard people pitty her for her affliction, said "But I am so blessed! Imagine, the first thing I will see will be the face of God." That is the kind of biblical faith I am talking about. It humbles. She turned her disavantage into a blessing and thanks God for it! She overcame her destiny.

5,852 posted on 05/26/2008 8:40:33 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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