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To: kosta50; Kolokotronis; Mad Dawg; stfassisi; Dr. Eckleburg
A priori doesn't mean it's "baseless." Every belief, whatever it may be, is based on something. A priori is wholly deductive; therefore it is not mindless, baseless or irrational. But it is not necessarily true. Faith is a belief, not a proof. Just because I believe in something doesn't make it true.

"A priori" is deductive, so from what are you deducing your belief? The reason I say that your faith is "baseless" is that you admit that it is blind. Can one deduce from the blind? No. Every time I say that we can have a reasoned faith you say "NO, NO, NO", we cannot. How can you now tell me that your faith is not based on the irrational? You can't. :)

The problem with faith is not the faith itself but when someone claims that his faith is "true." This extraordinary claim demands extraordinary evidence.

I can't imagine a person bothering to have faith if he wasn't willing to claim it was true. Faith is not akin to "I wish I had a rocket ship". Faith is akin to "I know for a fact that Christ loves me".

5,354 posted on 05/05/2008 3:33:12 PM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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To: Forest Keeper; Kolokotronis; Mad Dawg; stfassisi; Dr. Eckleburg
"A priori" is deductive, so from what are you deducing your belief?

Personal preference. "Makes sense," as you'd say. It's more like a matter of taste.

The reason I say that your faith is "baseless" is that you admit that it is blind

Of coruse it's blind; faith requires that leap of faith in order to exist. A rumbling volcano is the reason; it produces fear and a foreboding power. The leap of faith is that there is a "god" in the volcano.

We look at the universe and realize what is around us (I am not sure how many believers really do, but that's another story), and they say "wow!" It's overwhelming and humbling. This causes us to ask the question we can't answer: "Who or what made it?" Obviously someone or something that existed before all this existed, which some call "God." From there on, it is God who made all this. But this is just what we believe. It doesn't mean that's what it is. It's a blind faith and it's reached by a leap of reason, but it is not baseless, that is, for no reason whatsoever.

You don't wake up one day and say "I believe" for no reason. Something you experience leads you to make that leap and call it faith. It doesn't mean it's true. But of course every believer, no matter what variety, will tell you his belief is true.

I can't imagine a person bothering to have faith if he wasn't willing to claim it was true

That's the intransigence of religion. No one can admit to being wrong. That's why some consider religion the source of prejudice and backwardness.

5,361 posted on 05/05/2008 8:02:19 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodox is pure Christianity)
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