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To: kosta50; Mad Dawg
Predestination is the antithesis of free will only if the former is used to make decisions for us, rather than be a knowledge of the latter.

No, not at all. First of all, "predestination" simply being God's knowledge of man's sovereignty makes a complete mockery of the word. That isn't extra-biblical, it's anti-biblical. Second, why do you insist that either God FORCES us, OR man is completely independent of God in his sovereignty? There is no evidence of that, as MD's example with the child showed. For good, God leads us as a loving parent would lead a small child. I suppose for you the parent should close his eyes and turn his back in all things so as not to "interfere". :)

I think you're trying to have it both ways. On the one hand you will insist that God loves us and "guides" us toward the right things, but then on the other hand you will say that if God's guidance has any REAL, or decisive influence, then it is interference.

5,113 posted on 04/24/2008 8:11:55 PM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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To: Forest Keeper; Mad Dawg
I suppose for you the parent should close his eyes and turn his back in all things so as not to "interfere"

Not really. But you are exaggerating our Father-child relationship with God. God created man to be a rational, moral being, capable of mercy and compassion, not some little child.

It was God's decision to give man freedom to choose. It was God's decision that man's freedom shall be limited, lest he becomes like God; of course, freedom carried the possibility that Adam would abuse it and he did, and God knew he would, but it is much more impoertant to come to God freely than to be forced, because forced love in no love.

5,115 posted on 04/24/2008 9:34:50 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodox is pure Christianity)
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