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To: papertyger; Manfred the Wonder Dawg
I use “RCC” as shorthand for what you call “the Catholic Church”, as it is based in and controlled from Rome.

The morning's first observation:

The facts are that there are many churches in communion with the See of Peter, only one of them is the Roman Catholic Church.

The other pertinent fact is that the Vatican does not "control" much. It guides, advises, instructs, attempts to assist, things of that kind.

So I would suggest that not only these inaccuracies but their persistence in the face of the ease with which the truth of these matters could be obtained, these "go to" the pathology argument, and get filed in the same file as the problem with nuance.

501 posted on 01/30/2008 4:46:37 AM PST by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: Mad Dawg

Good morning! Ah, perception is reality, isn’t it? I have no idea what the “See of Peter” is. Nor do I care to know how many other poor souls in non-RCCs are “in communion” with the RCC. But I am interested about this: Are churches that are “in communion” with the RCC considered part of “the Catholic Church”?

But I do read reports from all around the world about RCC outposts (I guess ya’ll consider “it” one church) that reveal CONTROL being exerted by bishops and the like, most of whom fawn over the man called by RCC folks as “Holy Father” - which is an abomination all in itself. Where they don’t possess control, such as in much of communist China, they are working with the government (standard MO) to gain it.


505 posted on 01/30/2008 5:54:48 AM PST by Manfred the Wonder Dawg (Test ALL things, hold to that which is True.)
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To: Mad Dawg; Alex Murphy; alpha-8-25-02; blue-duncan; Dr. Eckleburg; ears_to_hear; Forest Keeper; ...
Now you are taking offense at any reference noting the RCC is centered in Rome? And according to you it's now "pathelogical" to use the shorthand "RCC?"

Please keep us informed as to when the pope will be vacating the Vatican so the celebration can begin in earnest. (Gamecock's got the beer chilling and I'll bake some brownies. Would someone volunteer to bring the chips and dip?)

the Vatican does not "control" much.

Huh? The pope controls every word of your belief system.

From the Catechism of the Roman Catholic Church...

"(882) The Pope, Bishop of Rome and Peter's successor, "is the perpetual and visible source and foundation of the unity both of the bishops and of the whole company of the faithful." "For the Roman Pontiff, by reason of his office as Vicar of Christ, and as pastor of the entire Church has FULL, SUPREME and UNIVERSAL POWER over the whole Church, a power which he can ALWAYS exercise UNHINDERED." (page 254)

(891) The Roman Pontiff, head of the college of bishops, enjoys this INFALLIBILITY in virtue of his office, when, as supreme pastor and teacher of all the faithful--who confirms his brethren in the faith--he proclaims by a definitive act a doctrine pertaining to faith or morals. . . . The INFALLIBILITY promised to the Church is also present in the body of bishops when, together with Peter's successor, they exercise the supreme Magisterium," above all in an Ecumenical Council. When the Church through its supreme Magistrium proposes a doctrine "for belief as being divinely revealed," and as the teaching of Christ, the definitions "must be adhered to with the obedience of faith." This INFALLIBILITY extends as far as the deposit of divine Revelation itself. (Page 256)

Sounds like a whole heck of a lot of "control" to me.

And every word in direct opposition to Scripture...

"And he (Jesus) is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in ALL things he might have the PREEMINENCE." -- Colossians 1:18

Scripture tells us all men sin every day, and no man is infallible in anything except Jesus Christ.

"The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately WICKED: who can know it?" -- Jeremiah 17:9

"If we say that we have no sin, WE DECEIVE OURSELVES, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins (to Jesus), he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from ALL unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us." -- 1 John 1:8-10

"For ALL have sinned, and come short of the glory of God" -- Romans 3:23

Why just look at Peter whom the RCC imagines to be the first "pope," a man corrected by Paul, but even more telling, rebuked by Christ as "satan"...

"And again HE (Peter) DENIED with an oath, I do not know the man (speaking of Jesus). And after a while came unto him they that stood by, and said to Peter, Surely thou also art one of them; for thy speech bewrayeth thee. Then began he to CURSE and to SWEAR, saying, I know not the man. And immediately the cock crew." -- Matthew 26:72-74

"But he (Jesus) turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: THOU art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men." -- Matthew 16:23

"But when Peter was come to Antioch, I (Paul) withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed." -- Galatians 2:11


558 posted on 01/30/2008 12:50:51 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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