Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: Forest Keeper; MarkBsnr; Kolokotronis; stfassisi; HarleyD; Dr. Eckleburg; blue-duncan; wmfights
Yes, if Hitler truly repented and asked Christ into His heart just before he died, then the Reformed God would accept him. I did not know that with the Apostolic God, it is too late for some while they live on earth

He will accept a repentant Hitler, but he will use "evil" infants, who die, as hell's fire logs (since we are all born "evil," as you reminded me)? The infants who did absolutely nothing evil, the infants who cannot repent (for their future sins!), the  Reformed God will send to hell because they are "evil" infants!

So, here we have another fine example of the Reformed insanity: if Hitler died as an infant, he would go to hell for sure because God would see him as evil. But if Hitler repented in his bunker before he died, God would accept him, and all his evil deeds would be forgiven? 

Reformed theology 101: make sure you live to adulthood, even if the Reformed God predestined you to commit most heinous crimes, and then repent before you die. If you have the bad luck of dying as an infant, tough! You are a fire log!  

But, we have a complicating matter here: if  Hitler repented, and then shot himself, does that wipe out the forgiveness he received for his sins and restores his guilt, or is he now only guilty of suicide?

Tell me, FK, are there different "tiers" in hell (just in reverse fashion from those in heaven), i.e. for those who "just" committed grave sins, such as suicide ("grave," it kills you, get it, LOL!), and another (I suppose hotter tier) for those mass murders and rapists? And one can only speculate as to what temperature (white light, billions of degrees F) reserved for people like (unrepentant) Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, etc.!

Yes, God had control over the Holocaust, but He did not force anyone to sin

But [the Reformed] God predestined them to sin, and they had no choice but to sin!

 The alternative is a weak God who is not in control and just lets whatever happens, happen

For how many generations did this strong [Reformed] God sit back and did nothing before he decided to drown the whole earth because this sovereign [Reformed] God did absolutely nothing to prevent man from extreme wickedness? (cf Gen 6:6)

Does this mean that this strong Reformed God just sat back and let things happen, or does it mean that men became wicked on His watch because this Reformed God willed it ? [and then got angry when he got what he willed?!]

That God demonstrates extreme irresponsibility and should have His license to create REVOKED

Yeah,  but God is under no obligation to be fair and balanced...for, no matter what he does, he is never subjected to any responsibility!  :)

4,990 posted on 04/19/2008 9:21:24 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodox is pure Christianity)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4985 | View Replies ]


To: kosta50; MarkBsnr; Kolokotronis; stfassisi; HarleyD; Dr. Eckleburg; blue-duncan; wmfights; ...
He will accept a repentant Hitler, but he will use "evil" infants, who die, as hell's fire logs (since we are all born "evil," as you reminded me)?

That is unknown. God has as many "wildcards" to play as He wants. I don't "declare" it one way or the other, and I am unaware of any other Reformer around here who does.

The infants who did absolutely nothing evil, the infants who cannot repent (for their future sins!), the Reformed God will send to hell because they are "evil" infants!

Just to be clear, I should mention that theologically speaking, original sin IS, by itself, enough to convict. If memory serves, Augustine said as much, however, I don't have the quote to back that up. In any event, that idea alone condemns NO ONE. God alone, in His sovereignty, predestines all of those who are to be His, regardless of anything else.

Of course, the Bible also supports the idea of original sin:

Ps 51:5-6 : 5 Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me. 6 Surely you desire truth in the inner parts; you teach me wisdom in the inmost place.

Eph 2:3 : All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature objects of wrath.

Do all of us NEED a savior from conception or not? I say YES.

So, here we have another fine example of the Reformed insanity: if Hitler died as an infant, he would go to hell for sure because God would see him as evil. But if Hitler repented in his bunker before he died, God would accept him, and all his evil deeds would be forgiven?

You just told me you agree with the second thing above, so there is no issue there. And despite your accusation, Reformed theology says nothing about what would have happened if baby Hitler died. That is nonsense. No one is judged on what he WOULD HAVE DONE if he didn't die as a baby. What are you talking about? Whatever it is, it is not Reformed theology.

But, we have a complicating matter here: if Hitler repented, and then shot himself, does that wipe out the forgiveness he received for his sins and restores his guilt, or is he now only guilty of suicide?

It's not complicated at all. If Christ really died for our sins, and if Hitler really (totally hypothetically) repented and asked Christ into his heart, then no subsequent sin bars him from Heaven. In God's eyes, he would not be guilty of anything since Christ already paid the price.

Tell me, FK, are there different "tiers" in hell (just in reverse fashion from those in heaven), i.e. for those who "just" committed grave sins, such as suicide ("grave," it kills you, get it, LOL!), and another (I suppose hotter tier) for those mass murders and rapists?

That's a good question. My best "guess" would be "yes", as it would seem fitting. The only scripture I can think of is:

Rev 20:12-15 : 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Since everyone here winds up in hell, it "could" be that this describes different levels in hell. It is by no means a slam dunk, but that would make sense to me.

FK: "The alternative is a weak God who is not in control and just lets whatever happens, happen."

For how many generations did this strong [Reformed] God sit back and did nothing before he decided to drown the whole earth because this sovereign [Reformed] God did absolutely nothing to prevent man from extreme wickedness? (cf Gen 6:6)

What does that have to do with anything? We all know that God allows sin to happen. Whenever He feels like getting dramatically into the middle of it, He does. That's not an issue of weakness or strength. He is sovereign and does whatever He wants. The underlying point is that God is ALWAYS in control.

5,081 posted on 04/23/2008 3:38:26 AM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4990 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson