[kosta50]

I know you're not a big fan of Paul but the scriptures are clear that man KNOWS that there is a God, and that there is ONE God.

I disagree, and that's why I am not a big fan of St. Paul. There are people who believe in gods and worship them with love (take Thailand for example) that rivals ours (which is mostly lip service anyway).

This also then leads to false universalism. If all people know one (and the same) God, then all religions are "right" even though they are expressed differently.

Man knows what is right and wrong. That is why we have laws

Man knows two things when it comes to right and wrong: (a) feels good [right] and (b) feels bad [wrong]. That's why their god is "wrong" and ours is "right." That's why people praise God when things go good and shake their fists at him when things go bad.

If everything is for the glory of God, then our fortune and misfortune demand equal praise and gratitude, whether it be the birth of our son or daugther or a premature death of a loved one, or losing all your fortune through Enron.

This outlook makes human suffering and crulety is only part of God's "plan" and we are not to feel one way or another about it. That's not the God we recognize in Christ.

In fact, if we are to follow Reformed theology we would simply say about the unfortunate ones "too bad, they are where they are and what they are because God wanted them to be where they are and what they are."

No, HD, Man doesn't know God. Man only knows man's version of God.

Man instituded laws to gvie himself "rights." Not because man knows God.

[HarleyD]

I disagree, and that's why I am not a big fan of St. Paul.

Well, I can't help you there except to say the Orthodox Church looks upon his writings to be inspired by God.

There are people who believe in gods and worship them with love (take Thailand for example) that rivals ours (which is mostly lip service anyway).

According to Paul the reason is they know God but they don't wish to acknowledge Him as God. Please remember that while Moses was up on Mount Sinai and they had God before them, the Israelites (Aaron included) created the golden calf for them to worship. That is typical of man. They see God but want to make their own god. They'll get a block of wood, carve it into some likeness, cover it with gold and jewels, and then bow down to it. Pretty stupid but that is the way we are.

If everything is for the glory of God, then our fortune and misfortune demand equal praise and gratitude, whether it be the birth of our son or daugther or a premature death of a loved one, or losing all your fortune through Enron.

Isn't that the lesson of Job? Naked came we into this world. Naked shall we leave. Bless be the name of the Lord.

In fact, if we are to follow Reformed theology we would simply say about the unfortunate ones "too bad, they are where they are and what they are because God wanted them to be where they are and what they are."

Sorry, life isn't full of equality. God never told the Egyptians to put lamb's blood on the door post the night the angel of death passed through. He did tell the Israelites. Was that unfair to the Egyptians? That is the difference between God's justice and His grace.

Man instituded laws to gvie himself "rights." Not because man knows God.

Nonsense. Man intuitively knows that murder is wrong. He knows it's wrong to steal or to lie. In every civilization laws have always been instituted that incorporated these commandments. They are written on people's heart. They know God but chose not to honor Him as God.