Replies

Your reply is evidence of the very point I have been endeavoring to drive home:

Man is not the measure of God.

We must receive all of the words of God – even if they are hard to accept and that includes not dismissing God’s words based on our own mortal reasoning or desire.

Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: - Luke 24:25

In John 6, many of Christ’s disciples left Him because His words were a “hard saying” they could not accept. Theirs is not an example any Christian should follow.

As for the Law of Excluded Middle, the middle must be provable and real to show that the either/or choices are a false dilemma. The problem is proving that the third choice is real and rational….
You are telling me that predestination and free will can "co-exist" but you do not show how that is possible or even real. I take it that your definitions of predestination and free will are vastly different from standard definitions, in which case please define them.

Above, you demand that God must be “rational” – but the word “rational” comes from “ratio” which measures the relationship between two numbers. Man is variable but God is invariable.

Like the word “ratio” does not apply to a single number, the term “rational” does not apply to God; there is no ratio in Truth – there can only be a ratio to Truth. God is absolute. His ways are not our ways. His thoughts are not our thoughts.

For my thoughts [are] not your thoughts, neither [are] your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For [as] the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. - Isaiah 55:8-9

Likewise, we denizens of space/time with vision and minds constrained to four perceptible dimensions (not to mention highly limited mental capability) are in no position whatsoever to tell God that we know what is "real." Jeepers, we don't even know - and can never know - the scope of "all that there is."

Your challenge:

To me a predestined world is a divine theater where different actors act out specific roles in order for the heavenly play to come to a predetermined, scripted end. The actors are not at all at any liberty to change the script or their assigned characters, even though they may wish it. There is no room for any free will on that stage.

Your statement roughly equates man’s scientific theory of “strong determinism” to “predestination.” Roughly, strong determinism says that if you knew the initial conditions of the universe - and the rules - then you would be able to determine every future event.

But God’s says:

And he answered and said unto them, I tell you that, if these should hold their peace, the stones would immediately cry out. – Luke 19:40

God’s will is irresistible. Therein is predestination.

The new heaven and earth (Revelation) is not a possibility. It will be because it is God’s will, He has spoken it.

Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times [the things] that are not [yet] done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: - Isaiah 46:10

Likewise, God’s calling is without repentance.

For the gifts and calling of God [are] without repentance. – Romans 11:29

And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to [his] purpose. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. – Romans 8:28-30

Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly [places] in Christ: According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, - Ephesians 1:3-5

And He also gives man free will - or freedom of movement – but it is not absolute because the will of God is irresistible.

In the passage we’ve been discussing, John 21, Peter’s ‘freedom of movement’ is love. He wasn’t being forced to love Jesus to a certain level (more than these) - but Jesus made it very clear by repeating it three times that loving Him is the necessary qualification to feed His lambs. Peter evidently had a problem keeping his priorities straight:

But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men. – Matthew 16:23

Likewise, when Moses was called to his mission, he balked because his speech was inadequate. God was angry with him for balking – for not trusting Him – but He “worked around” Moses’ will by giving him Aaron.

And Moses said unto the LORD, O my Lord, I [am] not eloquent, neither heretofore, nor since thou hast spoken unto thy servant: but I [am] slow of speech, and of a slow tongue.

And the LORD said unto him, Who hath made man's mouth? or who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? have not I the LORD? Now therefore go, and I will be with thy mouth, and teach thee what thou shalt say.

And he said, O my Lord, send, I pray thee, by the hand [of him whom] thou wilt send.

And the anger of the LORD was kindled against Moses, and he said, [Is] not Aaron the Levite thy brother? I know that he can speak well. And also, behold, he cometh forth to meet thee: and when he seeth thee, he will be glad in his heart. And thou shalt speak unto him, and put words in his mouth: and I will be with thy mouth, and with his mouth, and will teach you what ye shall do. And he shall be thy spokesman unto the people: and he shall be, [even] he shall be to thee instead of a mouth, and thou shalt be to him instead of God. – Exodus 4:10-16

God’s will was irresistible, but Moses did have some “freedom of movement.”

No one and no thing can thwart the will of God. That is the bottom line.

Not Satan, not Moses, not Peter, not Herod, not Paul, not the people when Jesus entered Jerusalem, not you, not me, no one - and that includes Mary.

Now I realize that many of my Catholic brothers and sisters in Christ put great stock in Mary’s submission to God’s calling. I strongly suspect her submission is why they are so compelled to venerate her as an example of how everyone ought to submit to the will of God.

But in no way could she have thwarted the will of God. If she had balked like Moses – or if she had refused – then Jesus would nevertheless had become enfleshed. With God, all things are possible.

And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to [our] father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham. - Matthew 3:9

But Jesus beheld [them], and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible. - Matthew 19:26

If anyone thinks Mary could thwart the will of God then they must also think that Satan can thwart the will of God.

But we know that his fate has already been sealed. Revelation 20

And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. - Luke 10:18

To God be the glory!

BTW, your comments on judgment call for another “sermonette” but I didn’t want to overload this post – so more later.