While the nonelect will end up in hell, they were not created for the purpose of sending them there, as many on your side continue to allege. They were created to be used for God's purposes in order to glorify Him.
I'm not sure what you mean by permission. God has my complete permission, as if He needed it, to do whatever with me He chooses. In terms of His originally giving me faith, at that time I didn't want it since I was under original sin. My inner goodness, apart from God, was not nearly good enough to come to God on my own. If God did not do what He did then I would be lost. I know that many think of that as a total violation of the sanctity of man's free will. All I know is that if He didn't "violate" it, I would never be saved. Maybe that's how it is decided who will be Protestant and who will be Apostolic, the ones with no inner goodness whatsoever become Protestant. :)
Reformers have apparently truncated their Paul once again: 1 Tim 2: 1 First of all, then, I ask that supplications, prayers, petitions, and thanksgivings be offered for everyone, 2 for kings and for all in authority, that we may lead a quiet and tranquil life in all devotion and dignity. 3 This is good and pleasing to God our savior, 4 who wills everyone to be saved and to come to knowledge of the truth.
Well, either God is a colossal failure in what He wills, an extraordinarily weak God, OR, this passage does not mean what you are saying it means. Here, "wills" refers to a general desire or wish in an outward sense, or to the general nature of God, one of love. It is consistent that an all loving God would "want" all men to be saved, but that cannot be taken as literally true.
FK: ***Think about what you are saying. What could possibly be an allure to something one has no say in?***
Umm, you’re kidding me right? A personal get out of hell free card is not an attractive proposition? A disavowing of any responsibility and a guaranteed limo ride to Heaven is not of great allure?
Wow, your above certainly DOES sound alluring. Unfortunately, us Reformers don't have access to any of that. In any event, my point was that the sense of "allure" is meaningless to a Reformer since we know that God chooses His own. IOW, we don't "sign up" for a good deal from ourselves. We choose God BECAUSE He chose us first.
I do not know of any Reformed that believe that they are of the non elect. The beauty of it is that every sin that one commits is of no consequence and repentance is not required after one initially repents.
I do not know of any Catholics who believe they are going to hell. What does that solve? :)
All sins have consequences, Mark. God disciplines those He loves, and we know what happens to those He doesn't love. It's just that not every action we take on earth has salvific consequences. I couldn't imagine spending my whole life going from saved to damned to saved to damned over and over again. I wouldn't leave the house. :)
ROTFLOL!
It's another difference in emphasis , I guess. I'm not in the confessional, in the pew, before the Sacrament, saying my prayers, studying my Bible, writing checks to charities, restraining myself from reaching right down through the phone wires and strangling the solicitation-caller or (in the real world) being nice to him before I hang up in order, or WHATEVER in order to be saved or to skew the odds or because I'm worried about being saved, or because being saved, as such, is in my mind at all.
I also don't praise the sunset or the emerald spring grass to get on God's good side.
If I have a moment of doubt or a temptation, and as soon as I'm aware of it, I cross myself and mutter "In the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit." This is Catholic-speak for,"Take over, God, you have the conn."
Maybe, in terms of objective, so to speak, theology, I am just assuming that I am "saved". But, suppose I get angry and misbehave somehow. As soon as I "notice" I tell God that I know I did it and I'm sorry and ask for help to avoid messing up like that again AND I talk about it the next time I make a private confession. I just don't "worry" about being saved.
Okay: here's an image: Life is a war. I'm like a colonel. I'm doing my best to win and I'm doing my best with my troops. Sometimes I make a heck of a misjudgment -- could be for any number of reasons. That's terrible. Good soldiers died, and it's my fault -- terrible! MY failure led to horrible outcomes. BUT the war is not over. I have to take seriously how severe the mistake was, I have to understand it and to learn what I can to keep from doing it again. But I don't have time to indulge in a severe case of the dithers, to wring my hands, to get into a funk about whether this will cost us the war. It would be an even greater failure if I did do those things. So, instead, I turn back to the battle, resolved to do better next time.
I try, in the paradoxical way of working with Him who works in me both to will and to do, to hold up my end of the relationship -- which mostly means begin grateful for it.
It's the whole "hag-ridden" think again. Evidently some are hag-ridden and draw no comfort from their relationship with God. So far, since I "got" in 1971 that it was for me that He died, it has not been that way at all for me.