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To: Forest Keeper
I think we're in agreement, pretty much. It's the articulation of the agreement that accounts for the balking, backing, filling, looking for nits to pick.

When I "check my work" on theology and stuff, I think it good to "savor" every articulation, and to sniff out all the (apparent, if not real) tensions and seeming contradictions.

For example IF Jeremiah says (Lamentations 3:33) that God does not willingly afflict or grieve the children of men, the sheer wonder of how an inspired prophet could make the suggestion that God does something "unwillingly" ought not, I think, to be explained away with a bunch o' talk about contingent will and this will and that will. That the Holy Spirit could think for a second that a good way to talk about God is to portray Him as doing something unwillingly, well... hush my mouth! That's amazing.

And so with God "cannot" lie. The strict sense of "cannot" is a limitation on ability, as though, well, He tried as hard as He could, but He just couldn't do it.

But a circle "cannot" have corners. That inability is, as it were, the glory of the circle - no matter how closely we look at it, it always curves with the same rate of curvature .... No jaggies.

So I am looking at the statement, God cannot lie, and trying to find another way to express the same truth without a suggested negative, is all.

No, it's okay. I LIKE lowering my head and running into brick walls. Sometimes I learn something, even if it's only, "Whoa! That there is one tough wall!"

And I think we agree about IHS and the obedience. 100% Man qua nacheral critter, with or without Fall, wants to live. 100% Man qua (allegedly) rational animal deduces that the fulfillment of all his desires is in God's Will, and wants what God wants. 100% unfallen or full of Grace, natural, rational, human-type personnel sees clearly what the merely rational Man sometimes deduces vaguely, and doesn't have to worry about rebellion of the "members" trying to talk Him into rationalizing disobedience.

And once again it seems that if we want to see what the fullness of God's wisdom, power, justice, beauty, and joy are, a man on a cross is NOT a man limited, but the Son of Man blossoming as one who came to do God's will.

NOT in any meaningful way a limitation.

At the end of the Memorare, a prayer to the virgin supposedly by St. Bernard - he of the brandy cask around the neck - no, maybe that's someone else, those of us who like furrin or dead languages pray: audi propitia et exaudi. Hear prayer and REALLY hear it. Which is usually translated hear my prayer and answer.

I mention this because "obey" is, at its heart, an intensive of the verb audire, so, "listen intently" (as a servant might listen to an exigent master.) The Word listens intently to the Father's words, and this is not a limitation but His Glory.

4,567 posted on 03/29/2008 2:19:33 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: Mad Dawg
And so with God "cannot" lie. The strict sense of "cannot" is a limitation on ability, as though, well, He tried as hard as He could, but He just couldn't do it.

I agree. LOL! I was going to offer the alternative of "God's nature and essence would prevent Him from ever trying", but I'm not sure if that helps at all. :)

And once again it seems that if we want to see what the fullness of God's wisdom, power, justice, beauty, and joy are, a man on a cross is NOT a man limited, but the Son of Man blossoming as one who came to do God's will. NOT in any meaningful way a limitation.

AMEN, MD! :)

4,825 posted on 04/07/2008 4:26:11 PM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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