FK-For all the good we do, God wills it.
FK-Of course any benefits to the non-elect... would only be of any use during this life. All of the non-elect share the same eternity, but they obviously have very different qualities of lives here on earth.
It is my strong belief (and I think this is evidence in scripture with the rich man and Lazarus) that there are simply some who would rather face the torment of hell then to live eternity glorifying God. This is the way things were made.
And the devil rules the earth by the same "methodology" I suppose? Or is the devil an "independent" contractor in the Reformed world?
By right we should all have been exterminated long ago
I guess the Neanderthals know.
So He causes the sun to shine on the just and unjust and provides air to breathe for those who would curse His name as well as praise it
Unless you are the bad pharaoh or just happen to be born Judas...and both of you are needed as villians in the earhtly sopa opera.
It is my strong belief (and I think this is evidence in scripture with the rich man and Lazarus) that there are simply some who would rather face the torment of hell then to live eternity glorifying God
The sotry of rich man and the beggar in Luke speaks of the Jewish idea of the Sheol, the underworld for the dead souls. The beggar is "carried by the angels" into the "bossom of Abraham" not with Christ!) and the rich man is simply buried when both of them die. Obviously Luke didn't even have a notion of heaven at that stage of Christainity, or he simply worte down what Paul believed. Hello?
{re: Rom 1:21} People KNOW there is a God. It is revealed all around them. They simply suppress the truth about God because they do not wish to glorify Him.
Why, because +Paul says so? People conclude there is God because the world exists and something had to make it. Whatever our fancy makes of it is God to us. We really dont know what made all this, but we clal it God anyway, because it's a mystey to us. That doesn't mean we can't make up feel-good stories about it.
People KNOW there is a God. It is revealed all around them. They simply suppress the truth about God because they do not wish to glorify Him.
AMEN! Alamo-Girl always reminds us God is revealed in the creation, and here Paul is clearly telling us that very fact.
All men were created in the image of God, and all men carry this imprint on them as if it were an implanted I.D. chip saying "This, too, belongs to God."
Paul then continues to tell us that some of these men are left in their natural disobedience to God and thus they will be vessels to display His wrath.
And some men will have their sins paid for by Christ, and their minds quickened by the Holy Spirit, and a new heart will be given to them in place of their stone heart, and thus they will repent and obey and believe, by Christ within them. And these men will be vessels to display God's mercy.
"Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?" -- Romans 9:20
Each man is responsible, and none is without excuse. But some men are left in condemnation, and some men are called and thus, acquitted by Christ, according to God's holy purpose.
O LORD, why hast thou made us to err from thy ways, and hardened our heart from thy fear? Return for thy servants' sake, the tribes of thine inheritance. The people of thy holiness have possessed it but a little while: our adversaries have trodden down thy sanctuary. We are thine: thou never barest rule over them; they were not called by thy name." -- Isaiah 63:16-19 "...thou, O LORD, art our father, our redeemer; thy name is from everlasting.
"We are thine...they were not called by thy name."
The fact that the only thing separating the redeemed from the condemned is that God has named us as His family should make us all even more sober and humble -- nothing distinguishes us from the lost except the love God has for His Son, mercifully given to us as a free, unmerited, transformative gift of pure grace.
Like the last line from Frost's poem, "The Road Not Taken" -- "And that has made all the difference."
***It is given to Him to convict the world of sin, righteousness and judgment. We are instruments if He chooses to use us but if not we are still commanded to share the good news.***
I’d like to know how the programming is inputted; and I still don’t get why the Good News is required to be preached to the Reformed non elect except as possibly a way for personal wealth.
***Everyone benefits from God’s grace. By right we should all have been exterminated long ago. Yet God is long suffering. So He causes the sun to shine on the just and unjust and provides air to breathe for those who would curse His name as well as praise it.***
How do the Reformed non elect benefit from God’s grace? I thought that the Reformed position was that they couldn’t receive it. If nobody preached the Gospel to these unfortunates, then is God going to remove sun and air from them? Is that why you have to do it?
I’m not getting it and I seem to be getting it less with each response.
***It is my strong belief (and I think this is evidence in scripture with the rich man and Lazarus) that there are simply some who would rather face the torment of hell then to live eternity glorifying God.***
You just may swim the Tiber yet. That is the most Catholic thing you’ve said in a long time. Unless you wanna head east with brothers Kolo and kosta, that is.
If you don’t mind, I’d like to ask them anyway what the original Greek says in Rom 1:21. I thought that the line meant that they knew of God and that they had had the Good News of Jesus preached to them and were baptized and then chose not to practice the faith.
Amen, Harley. I even go a little further (in my opinion) in that I think that even the reprobate benefit from hearing the Gospel. While they cannot be saved, I still think it could influence their choices while on earth. As WM recently discussed, within the proper Reformed perspective, the lost can choose to sin or not sin. I would think that the Gospel may even be able to affect a reprobate for better choices, that is, better choices for him, even though it won't result in salvation.