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FWIW. here's an account of time, just for kicks: ......... But it depends on change/motion, on something happening. That's why it's hard to apply the concept of time to a situation in which there is nothing but the changeless/immovable God. Which is why it seems simpler to think that time began with the first act of creation.

Thanks, and it looks like I should have pinged you to 4,451. (Sorry :) I suppose I am postulating that there is a real difference between change/motion and "something happening". I fully agree that God has never gone from things like good to better, or OK to not so OK, but I don't think that necessarily means that nothing was going on before He created.

Thanks, and it looks like I should have pinged you to 4,451. (Sorry :)

Well, it'll be hard, but in the spirit of the season and all, I just MAY find it in my wizened and shrivelled heart of stone to forgive you. Let me get back to you on that.

I suppose I am postulating that there is a real difference between change/motion and "something happening".

Think about it real hard -- not that you haven't, but harder still, please. How is "happening" thought of without change? Isn't it that something "was"n't there and "now" it is, or it "was" this way and "now" it's that way.

I fully agree that God has never gone from things like good to better, or OK to not so OK, but I don't think that necessarily means that nothing was going on before He created.

I think (JUST my problem, not saying I'm right) that you have to be careful to remain aware of the "colorless green idea" possibility. Yeah, God and what He does is/are incomprehensible. Most of the struggle is to see how much we can say with the appearance of coherence before we hit a wall. But I myself don't think we can get very far with stuff going on or happening without something changin in some respect.