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To: Forest Keeper; blue-duncan; the_conscience; wmfights; Dr. Eckleburg
WOW! I did a triple take on this one. :) I've been thinking about this response for a half an hour and I'm still not sure what to say. In your mind it is correct to compare the writing of the Bible with the writing of the Quran. I humbly pray that lurkers will see where both of us are coming from

Well, in your Reformed theology is it not right to say that God wanted Judas to betray Christ? Was it not God who made Pontius Pilate? Was it not God's decision that Christ would be condmened. Or was it the Sanhedrin's doing? Has not everything been preordained from before the world even existed? Is it not God who planned it all? Who is really responsible here?

I think you should pause and wonder for a few hours about your own theological precepts and wonder what they really mean for lukers.

If God is in charge and we have no minds unless God makes one up for us, then the writing of John's Gospel is God-inspired just as the wiritng of Mohammad must be. He uses the good and the evil to accomplish His plan, isn't that what your theology teaches? This is not an endorsement of Mohammad's work any more than saying that Judas did his part in God's plan. Did either have a choice?

After all God gives us faith or lack of faith; God hardens our hearts or he doesn't. God saves some and God destroys others. It's all the Reformed God's doing.

4,350 posted on 03/19/2008 9:27:54 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50; Forest Keeper; Kolokotronis; blue-duncan; the_conscience; wmfights; Dr. Eckleburg

Kosta to FK -””He uses the good and the evil to accomplish His plan, isn’t that what your theology teaches? This is not an endorsement of Mohammad’s work any more than saying that Judas did his part in God’s plan. Did either have a choice? “”

After all God gives us faith or lack of faith; God hardens our hearts or he doesn’t. God saves some and God destroys others. It’s all the Reformed God’s doing.””

Blessed Thomas Aquinas sums this up beautifully....

That in God there can be no Evil

“ESSENTIAL being, and essential goodness, and all other things that bear the name of ‘essential,’ contain no admixture of any foreign element; although a thing that is good may contain something else besides being and goodness, for there is nothing to prevent the subject of one perfection being the subject also of another. Everything is contained within the bounds of its essential idea in such sort as to render it incapable of containing within itself any foreign element. But God is goodness, not merely good. There cannot therefore be in Him anything that is not goodness, and so evil cannot be in Him at all.
3. As God is His own being, nothing can be said of God that signifies participation. If therefore evil could be predicated of Him, the predication would not signify participation, but essence. Now evil cannot be predicated of any being so as to be the essence of any: for to an essentially evil thing there would be wanting being, since being is good.* There cannot be any extraneous admixture in evil, as such, any more than in goodness. Evil therefore cannot be predicated of God.

5. A thing is perfect in so far as it is in actuality: therefore it will be imperfect inasmuch as it is failing in actuality. Evil therefore is either a privation, or includes a privation, or is nothing. But the subject of privation is potentiality; and that cannot be in God: therefore neither can evil.

This truth also Holy Scripture confirms, saying: God is light, and there is no darkness in Him, (I John i, 5) Far from God impiety, and iniquity from the Almighty (Job xxxiv, 10). “” Thomas Aquinas - Of God and His Creatures


4,380 posted on 03/20/2008 1:40:33 PM PDT by stfassisi ("Above all gifts that Christ gives his beloved is that of overcoming self"St Francis Assisi)
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To: kosta50; blue-duncan; the_conscience; wmfights; Dr. Eckleburg; stfassisi
If God is in charge and we have no minds unless God makes one up for us, then the writing of John's Gospel is God-inspired just as the writing of Mohammad must be. He uses the good and the evil to accomplish His plan, isn't that what your theology teaches? This is not an endorsement of Mohammad's work any more than saying that Judas did his part in God's plan. Did either have a choice?

This is simply the classic "if man is not in control and leading God, then God causes evil" red herring. You are free to accept the claims of Islam as being potentially equally true to those of Christianity. That is your choice. I suppose if one's faith is blind, then why not? With no foundation for faith, then Islam really shouldn't be any better or worse than any other faith. We, of course, do not look at it that way because we do have a foundation for our faith.

As I noted in my last post, God uses the evil of others for the greater good of His plan. I know you probably think that all the events that had to come together for Jesus to be able to sacrifice Himself for us were probably just a huge collection of accidents, a huge collection of individual free will choices that by chance just happened to come together so that today we may be saved. I, of course, say that the whole thing was orchestrated by God because He loves us and would not leave anything to chance when it came to the salvation of His children. I don't believe in luck, but I know that many do, and even base their faiths on it.

4,627 posted on 03/30/2008 8:24:09 PM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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