[hosepipe]

[ This is not the self-understanding of the Catholic Church, and in fact it reminds me of the Donatist heresy. ]

They are both clubs.. i.e. sheep pens..
I didnt mention the goat pens.. implied but not specified in John ch 10.. Because there are many goat pens.. i.e. Buddist, Hindu, Tau, Animism, Islam, Spiritualism and thousands more, like that..

[Mad Dawg]

Are you saying you think the Donatist heresy constitutes a "sheep pen"?

I would venture that even those who have, or who think they have, an intimate personal relationship with IHS might be in error about certain aspects of the truth of Him, and some more seriously in error than others.

So even if I stipulate sheep pens for the time being, then I'd want to ask if some are better pens than others, in your view