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To: kosta50; Forest Keeper; Kolokotronis; MarkBsnr; stfassisi; HarleyD; Dr. Eckleburg; blue-duncan; ...
Kosta to FK-Forced "love" is really rape; it's no love at all. Christ certainly does not preach forced "love."

Exactly!

3,715 posted on 03/09/2008 7:40:57 AM PDT by stfassisi ("Above all gifts that Christ gives his beloved is that of overcoming self"St Francis Assisi)
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To: stfassisi; kosta50; Forest Keeper; Kolokotronis; MarkBsnr; HarleyD
In a no doubt doomed effort to give a SUGGESTION (and suggestion only) of how the irresistibility of grace can be seen as a bestowal of freedom rather than a deprivation, I offer the following.

It's Christmas Eve, children, beds, sugar-plums --- and you're down under the tree with some nifty new thing for the kiddies. After 90 minutes of trying to assemble it and having it not work repeatedly, parts left over, etc. you can no longer be said to be free in any meaningful sense. Among the many desires coursing in your ind (like, consigning to eternal fire the maker of the item in question) no good one can be fulfilled.

Then an angel, or maybe your wife recovers the instructions from the wastepaper basket where you, being a very manly man, have tossed them without opening.

The Hebrew for instructions, by the way, is Torah. Just sayin'.

Sullenly you consent to lower yourself to leaf through the manual, and ... suddenly, you GET it!

The Torah, plus some action seemingly external to you, leads to illumination. Before you lies the fulfillment of your desire to complete the toy before the parousia and you are so relieved that you even whisper a brief prayer of contrition for all the things you wanted to do to the manufacturer and you actually, in words audible by natural means, apologize to your wife for snapping at her.

Now, I suggest that at that moment it never occurs to you to go back to the unenlightened, pre-torah state, to throw the instructions away and to try it your own way. It does not feel like a loss of freedom, it feels like the GIFT of freedom.

This is an inadequate, though rich, example of something being given which objectively constricts our choices but which is experienced not as rape but as freedom.

3,718 posted on 03/09/2008 9:21:48 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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