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To: kosta50; MarkBsnr; irishtenor
Even if all this were true [the Catholic Catechism on the word of God], the fact is that (1) there is no proof of any of this and (2) it does not account for errors, disagreements, and inconsistencies that have plagued the New Testament scriptures all along.

It's probably better for me to let the Latins defend the Catechism as they choose. My position remains that the scriptures self-authenticate, and if God went to all that trouble to create His word, then He would also see to it that it remained pure for His purposes through all the problems you listed (if they even existed). I think we have a great disagreement about how many problems there actually are with the scriptures.

The claim that the authors were "consigned to writing whatever [God] wanted written, and no more" is simply not true when one considers that +Paul speaks of "his gospel" or when he explicitly states, on more than one occasion, that the commandments he is giving are not from the Lord but from him personally.

The Catechism is correct. (ACKK!!!!) :) When Paul speaks of "his gospel" he is perfectly clear that he is not speaking of some gospel that he made up. No, he is speaking only of that Gospel that was given to him personally by Christ. So, Paul's listeners understand that it is Christ's Gospel given to Paul. Paul adds NOTHING to that Gospel that was given to him, EXCEPT, it appears, for a few off hand comments which he clearly identifies.

Of those comments, I can't think of any that would reach the level of "commandment". Do you have an example? One of them amounted to saying he thought it would be better if people remained single, like him. However, not being an idiot, he understood that if everyone followed him on this then it would be the end of the human race. So, that couldn't have been a commandment.

You know, we are all "inspired" from the moment we wake up until we fall asleep. Something "inspires" us to do things all day long. My problem with this terminology used is that (1) it is loaded with implications and (2) it is "fluff" without substance.

I am fine with "inspired", but I like "God-breathed" better. I think that better describes what is actually going on.

3,694 posted on 03/08/2008 5:52:37 PM PST by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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To: Forest Keeper

***My position remains that the scriptures self-authenticate, and if God went to all that trouble to create His word, then He would also see to it that it remained pure for His purposes***

I’m not sure that God went through much trouble to create His word. He went through a bunch of trouble to create His Church, but Scripture seemed to be an afterthought 300 years later.

***I am fine with “inspired”, but I like “God-breathed” better. I think that better describes what is actually going on.***

Inspired is like leading. It does not guarantee perfection in the following. Same with the Holy Spirit. He is perfect; we are not. If we do not frogmarch, then it is up to us to follow Him. And we will falter.


3,697 posted on 03/08/2008 6:18:59 PM PST by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: Forest Keeper; MarkBsnr; irishtenor
My position remains that the scriptures self-authenticate

Baseless conjecture lackng any objective proof.

When Paul speaks of "his gospel" he is perfectly clear that he is not speaking of some gospel that he made up. No, he is speaking only of that Gospel that was given to him personally by Christ

Makes you wonder why did He choose the eleven others who were on a dead-end mission to the lost sheep of Israel.

It's nice of +Paul to tell us that "his gospel" is what was given to him "personally" by Christ, but it is not what Christ taught when He was walking the earth. I doubt that Christ changed His story.

Again, if Christ needed to get another Apostle in the likes of +Paul, to disseminate the gospel, then He left His work was not finished by His death and Resurrection and His mission was not accomplished. It stands to reason that after Christ nothing can top Him, nothing can be added to His completed work; no new revelations could be made, lest Christ be made imperfect.

I am fine with "inspired", but I like "God-breathed" better. I think that better describes what is actually going on

Same meaning, that is moved, motivated, etc.

3,711 posted on 03/08/2008 10:26:29 PM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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