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To: blue-duncan; Forest Keeper
You fail to explain why was Jesus tempted. Temptation for the sake of temptation? Did God need to "experience" temptation in order to be "more complete?" How can perfect God learn more?

It is clear that the early Gospel writers did not think of jesus as being God-man, but man, as the Jews would have thought of their messiah.

Because Jesus did not give in to temptation does not mean that the temptation He faced was not genuine.

How can it be "genuine" when the outcome was never in question? It's like allowing someone to tickle your feet to see if they can get you to laugh, and you you can absolutely resist laughing? It's a pretense. It's not a real challenge or a lesson, let alone a path to virtue!

Each one of us is fully human. Each one of us has been genuinely tempted. Yet, all of us have successfully resisted temptation at one time or another and not sinned

But there was no certainty in it, so for us, sinful human, it is a virtue. But if you know that no matter how much you are tempted you will never succumb, then the temptation is a charade.

The reason He did not give in to temptation was because He was [sic] God and it was impossible for Him to sin

I suppose that was a "Freudian slip."

One does not become innocent, one is innocent, a state of being that is worthless until it becomes virtue

Innocense is worthless unless it becomes a virtue?

Jesus was virtuous all of His life as God, but it was demonstrated by His obedience.

And what feat was that for Him?

3,510 posted on 03/05/2008 9:59:38 PM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50

***It is clear that the early Gospel writers did not think of jesus as being God-man, but man, as the Jews would have thought of their messiah. ***

John 20:28 “Thomas said “My Lord and my God.”

Obvious to me.


3,512 posted on 03/05/2008 10:39:47 PM PST by irishtenor (Check out my blog at http://boompa53.blogspot.com/)
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To: kosta50; Kolokotronis; Forest Keeper
“How can it be “genuine” when the outcome was never in question?”

I don't like to answer questions with questions but this calls for one.

How can the death of Jesus for our sin be genuine when the outcome was never in question? How can we affirm, as Kolo reminds us, “Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!” if Christ never died and conquered death?

3,556 posted on 03/06/2008 1:02:07 PM PST by blue-duncan
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To: kosta50; blue-duncan; irishtenor
BD: "Because Jesus did not give in to temptation does not mean that the temptation He faced was not genuine."

How can it be "genuine" when the outcome was never in question? It's like allowing someone to tickle your feet to see if they can get you to laugh, and you you can absolutely resist laughing? It's a pretense. It's not a real challenge or a lesson, let alone a path to virtue!

The temptation in the desert had more than one point to it, Kosta. One point was for Jesus to grow in His humanity, which He did by passing with flying colors. Another point was to prove that Jesus understood FULLY all the temptations that we face from satan all the time:

Heb 2:18 : Because he himself suffered when he was tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted.

Heb 4:15 : For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are — yet was without sin.

This also shows the PERSONAL relationship that God wants with us. He truly, in no uncertain terms, understands from first hand experience exactly what it is like to be us. He is openly showing us how we can actually relate to Him and He to us on a meaningful level. He is NOT some pantheistic, unknowable, god whose worship of amounts to just doing what you're told by other humans. That's not a relationship, and it's certainly not personal.

And a third point of the temptation in the desert was to teach us what to do when we face temptation. QUOTE SCRIPTURE. And of course Jesus only quoted OT scripture. Do you have a view on why Jesus would select that as His only strategy?

3,785 posted on 03/09/2008 9:30:13 PM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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