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To: betty boop
[ I don't think there's anything "objectively wrong" with your view, dear hosepipe. Just as I don't think there's anything "objectively wrong" with mine. Both interpretations seem just, though each is viewed from a somewhat different perspective. ]

Dear lady of grace.. its so true.. Just as "we" both have tried to explain the "observer problem" to the materialist scientists the same is true of spiritual things.. An spiritual observer can see things quite differently.. Example.. The Vision of Jesus Christ i.e. revelation... Is shown to John.. He sees what he can see.. and wrote what that appeared to be "to him".. To another; other visualizations, may have been prominent.. Because the whole experience was for "him".. You know; a "guy" that had never seen even one episode of Star Trek.. Must have been quite cool to him.. seeing all those "special effects".. directed by the Angel(s).. and probably God..

Spiritual things are indeed observed in the eye of the beholder.. I still love I Cor 2;9.. We probably cannot compute the way things really are.. We just observe what we can observe.. which is not from the same vantage(observation) points/vistas.. people that see similar things group together as clubs.. ugh.. churchs.. It very well could take US ALL to even approach understanding reality.. Presently we gather in clubs, you know, for fellowship and comfort.. Except for the ones that came out of the sheep pens.. they are a flock too, and just another group really.. but with no walls of the sheep pens.. alas just another club.. All clubs have special door knocks and handshakes.. guess we are all "Little Rascals".. i.e. ancient movie shorts..

3,494 posted on 03/05/2008 1:27:20 PM PST by hosepipe (CAUTION: This propaganda is laced with hyperbole....)
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To: hosepipe; Alamo-Girl
I still love I Cor 2;9.. We probably cannot compute the way things really are.. We just observe what we can observe.. which is not from the same vantage(observation) points/vistas..

Excellently put, dear hosepipe!

And yet the laws of the world and eternity, of heaven and earth -- God's laws -- are the same for all observers, regardless of their spatiotemporal positions. (Einstein said that). Some "observers" are willfully blind; but mainly we all suffer from the "seeing as if through a glass, darkly" problem.

Regarding your interpretation of the sheepfold as a sort of "religious club": I'm reminded of Eric Voegelin's cutting remark that, for many people these days, the churches have become "social clubs for like-minded families"....

Thanks for writing, dear brother in Christ!

3,495 posted on 03/05/2008 1:56:42 PM PST by betty boop (This country was founded on religious principles. Without God, there is no America. -- Ben Stein)
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