Replies

” Indeed, I have been blessed with “ears to hear” - I am a Christian, plain and simple.”

I take it that’s a “yes” in answer to my question. Quite a power you have there, AG, to understand what The Church apparently has not for 2000 years.

Have you ever heard of +Cosmas Aitolos? The Albanian Mohammedans hanged him for preaching Christianity in NW Greece in 1779. Anyway, he came across all sorts of folks in his travels. Among the most troublesome were people who had become possessed and overwhelmed by spiritual pride. To one he said:

“The Christian needs two wings in order to soar upward and attain Paradise: humility and love. When the first order of angels fell from angelic glory and became demons, the other nine orders humbled themselves and worshipped the All-Holy Trinity, and remained in their place and rejoice forever. We, too, my brethren, must reflect what an evil thing pride is - that it cast down the devil from angelic glory and he will always burn in Hades - and that humility kept the angels in Heaven, and they rejoice perpetually in the glory of the Holy Trinity. Let us then, my brethren, avoid pride, because it is the first daughter of the devil, is a path that leads to Hades; and let us have humility, because it is angelic, is a path that leads to Paradise.”

I have learned more in 4 years here on FR about Western, non-Latin Christianity than in all the rest of my life. Much stands out, but I think the rejection of a sense of abiding humility is what strikes me the most. As Kosta has said time and again, The Almighty God came to us as a baby born poor in a cave to an unwed teenage mother. He died for us as a scorned criminal broken and tortured on a cross. He is indeed the example of Extreme Humility. If at the Final Judgment we are examined to see if we bear any resemblance to Christ, am I wrong to suggest that Humility is something we should cultivate?

I have learned more in 4 years here on FR about Western, non-Latin Christianity than in all the rest of my life.

That's interesting. I would say the same of the EOC and the RCC.

Much stands out, but I think the rejection of a sense of abiding humility is what strikes me the most.

You're not serious are you?

I don't see the Born Again Christians claiming the sole authority to interpret Scripture because some council recognized it. I don't see Born Again Christians claiming an exclusivity to the Holy Spirit and power over it through their ordinances.

I do see the Born Again Christians searching Scripture to validate or refute their thinking on theological questions, not theologians "church fathers", or a big group of clergy "councils". I understand your frustration, it's hard to persuade others in heated discussions when your history is that people should believe what you said just because you said so. The history of the great state sponsored churches was to destroy any who disagreed. It is so much harder to persuade.

I have learned more in 4 years here on FR about Western, non-Latin Christianity than in all the rest of my life. Much stands out, but I think the rejection of a sense of abiding humility is what strikes me the most.

I have no pride in my own words, thoughts or deeds. That is why I use them sparingly to present the words of God.

Whatever boasting may be in my posts should be of God not man and certainly not me:

But thou hast saved us from our enemies, and hast put them to shame that hated us. In God we boast all the day long, and praise thy name for ever. Selah. - Psalms 44:7-8

Indeed, when I present my own thoughts in a religious discussion I qualify them as my own "musings." And I often admonish people who compliment me personally for anything good they perceive in my posts: "give God the glory!" Without Him, we can do nothing.

I am the vine, ye [are] the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. - John 15:5

Indeed my spiritual goal is to be transparent in Him, so that His Light will shine unobstructed by me.

For thou wilt light my candle: the LORD my God will enlighten my darkness. - Psalms 18:28

Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. – Matthew 5:14-16

For ye were sometimes darkness, but now [are ye] light in the Lord: walk as children of light: - Ephesians 5:8

The gemstones of the foundation of the New Jerusalem are also metaphors:

And the foundations of the wall of the city [were] garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation [was] jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald; The fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolite; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, a topaz; the tenth, a chrysoprasus; the eleventh, a jacinth; the twelfth, an amethyst. – Revelation 21:19-20

Colors are indeed beautiful. But my prayer is to tint the Light of God as little as possible. As hosepipe has noted before, a pure diamond dropped in clean water cannot be seen at all. I'm shooting to be a diamond in His Light, but will likely end up an amethyst. LOL!

I very strongly agree that pride is an abomination to God – it is our biggest obstacle in loving God surpassingly above all else – the one and only Great Commandment.

Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. – Matthew 22:37-38

Truly, pride is at the root of our difficulty in keeping the one and only great commandment – and it is at the root of all kinds of sin across the board.

Does any Christian really believe the proud ("what's in it for me?") have any part in the new heaven and new earth?

Pride is a symptom of a reprobate mind and is an abomination to God:

These six [things] doth the LORD hate: yea, seven [are] an abomination unto him: A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, A false witness [that] speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren. – Proverbs 6:16-19

The LORD hath made all [things] for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil. Every one [that is] proud in heart [is] an abomination to the LORD: [though] hand [join] in hand, he shall not be unpunished. By mercy and truth iniquity is purged: and by the fear of the LORD [men] depart from evil. – Proverbs 16:4-6

The fear of the LORD [is] to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate. – Proverbs 8:13

And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man. For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: All these evil things come from within, and defile the man. – Mark 7:20-23

Consider how deeply fundamental the sin of pride is.

And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. And when the woman saw that the tree [was] good for food, and that it [was] pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make [one] wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. – Genesis 3:4-6

Thou [wast] perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. – Ezekiel 28:15-17

Does not pride rest at the very root of the most obvious sins? Murder, theft, adultery, disobedience, rebellion?

And does it not also rest at the very root of the sins we barely notice? Want, complaint, anxiety, worry, jealousy, disbelief?

And is it not the very reason people withhold mercy from one another – or judge one another?

At the moment God’s adopted children realize Who He is – there can be no pride, there is nothing but abject spiritual humility in the presence of His glory.

Consider Paul who had every reason for pride in his day but he lost all of it on the road to Damascus when he was touched by the power of God:

For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh. Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more: Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, [of] the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee; Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. Yea doubtless, and I count all things [but] loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them [but] dung, that I may win Christ, And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but [this] one thing [I do], forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you. Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing. – Philippians 3:3-16

Thus we “deny ourselves” and thus we are “dead and our lives are hid with Christ in God.” And thus, counting ourselves dead and forsaking all else – we love Him surpassingly above all else, trusting Him to live through us:

For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. – Colossians 3:3

I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. – Galatians 2:20

If any [man] come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.

For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have [sufficient] to finish [it]? Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish [it], all that behold [it] begin to mock him, Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish. Or what king, going to make war against another king, sitteth not down first, and consulteth whether he be able with ten thousand to meet him that cometh against him with twenty thousand? Or else, while the other is yet a great way off, he sendeth an ambassage, and desireth conditions of peace.

So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple. – Luke 14:26-33

Paul’s “thorn in the flesh” is an example to all of us who struggle with pride. When we need help, God prunes us.

And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure. – 2 Corinthians 12:7

I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every [branch] that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. I am the vine, ye [are] the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. - John 15:1-5

It is a Spiritual Truth that nothing happens in the life of one of God’s children unless either He permits it or does it.

We must focus on God. Sit at His feet and hear His words, like Mary. It is the needful part. Believe Him. Trust Him.

Now it came to pass, as they went, that he entered into a certain village: and a certain woman named Martha received him into her house. And she had a sister called Mary, which also sat at Jesus' feet, and heard his word.

But Martha was cumbered about much serving, and came to him, and said, Lord, dost thou not care that my sister hath left me to serve alone? bid her therefore that she help me.

And Jesus answered and said unto her, Martha, Martha, thou art careful and troubled about many things: But one thing is needful: and Mary hath chosen that good part, which shall not be taken away from her. – Luke 10:38-42

Love God surpassingly above all else - and that includes self, spouse, children, etc. - any thing or any one.

To God be the glory, not man, never man.

Cultivate humility?

. . . My first response is, OF COURSE!

. . . However, it is a Grace, a Gift, an imparting or it’s not very thick or deep or durable.

And, usually, it comes out of great suffering and/or great compassion, empathy, Love.

It particularly comes out of a Great Vision of The Risen Lord . . . and His train filled the Temple.

And, those ‘saturatedly infected with humility’ also come in all stripes but readily resonate with one another in The Lord’s Love and in His Humility.

Humility also seems to . . . take over a willing, eager life chunks at a time—though some of the ‘humility consumed chunks’ can be rather sizeable when the suffering is quite sizeable.

Humility tends to be gracious but is not per se wimpy nor necessarily always quiet. Christ was just as humble when castigating the religious leaders as snakes, vipers and whitewashed tombs as He was suffering on The Cross—though in many observable existential respects, the Cross version was ostensibly greater. Executed naked publically as a criminal was no HUMAN crowning glory. Yet, it was for Christ before all Creation.

Those with above average humility seem to learn the most from the humble themselves.

The broken and contrite before God seem to have and to acquire yet more, the most humility.

Those seeking most to do so, with the greatest facility of putting themselves in others skin and shoes likewise.

Alamo-Girl’s ‘a tough old Texan.’ And they don’t come any better. Any missing her humility . . . tell me by doing so . . . more about their discernment and possibly their humility than about her humility.

Humility is not always wrapped in expected wrappings.

Quite a power you have there, AG, to understand what The Church apparently has not for 2000 years.

lol. Broken down into the individuals that makes it up, does "The Church" have anymore understanding than another individual? sometimes yes, sometimes no.

The Apostles themselves could not understand Christ with Him right there in their midst. After He was gone away and the HS came to dwell in them, they began to understand everything.

This concept that you have that we make ourselves humble, and holy and perfect, or that we must have some big ornate edifice with statues and icons to put us in the mood is a fundamental misunderstanding. It's like needing a golden calf .

Maybe it inspires awe and reverence in some people and serves as an aid to their idea of religion. It doesn't "help" them believe, as belief is a gift of God and comes from hearing the Word.

Jesus said that the kingdom is within, and that is the only place it's found. It's not in the land of Greece, or Italy or Israel. It is within every true believer.

I have read Alamo's posts for a long time and was once confused by some of what she said too, but after awhile, when they are all seen in continuity, and consistency, AG posts nothing that boasts of herself, but if she boasts at all , she boasts in God and gives Him the glory.

If at the Final Judgment we are examined to see if we bear any resemblance to Christ, am I wrong to suggest that Humility is something we should cultivate?

Who is more God-like: the one who can recite the bible and claims to be God's elect mouthpeiece, or someone who reflects Christ in love and humility but cannot quote a single verse?