In response I would say that spiritual is personal and real with the One true God. I'm sure that Muslims, etc., might say the same thing, but they are not my concern. I have only my experience, and the scriptures. My saying the above is not intended to "prove" to you that spiritual is something more than your picture. It's just what occurs to me first.
What doesn't occur to me is to think of spiritual in terms of "reliable" or "repeatable". Spiritual is different from the quadratic formula. But that doesn't make spiritual any less true.
If I thought that spiritual was unreliable, I don't know why I would bother. And to my knowledge, none of my spirituality relies on "overt" physical manifestations of miracles. I happen to believe that I witness "miracles" every day, but I don't look for them and say "OK, now it's alright to keep believing". :)
We have no way of knowing if there is such a "thing" as a spirit. The word itself comes from the ancient Hebrew and Greek words for "breath." The ancients assigned life-like properties to that breath, which is really a mechanical movement of air and it is present in all creatures that have active lungs. In others, gas-exchange takes place passively.
It depends on what we accept as "proof" and "truth". From your context I assume you are talking about the human spirit:
1 Cor 2:11 : For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.
Since this is Paul, we may disagree on the worth of this, but I highly doubt that the intention was to speak of a man's inanimate breath. :)
When humans and other lung-breathing animals die, they stop breathing. Death (irreversible cessation of mechanical life functions) follows a while later when the cell functions cease due to lack of oxygen, and not because the "spirit" left the body. Let's get real here.
How can you POSSIBLY know how this works? I do not claim to tell you how much a soul weighs, but how in the world can you declare that there is no soul that departs the body at the point of death? Your own Church has doctrine or dogma about it with which I disagree. :) If man has no spirit, then what is it that goes to Heaven or hell?
The Reformed are being equated to Mohammedans not because of their "spiritual" perception but because of their fundamentalist views, which are very often identical.
What is a "fundamentalist view"?
The empiricist looks at the universe and says "I have no clue why I am here. I could make up a story and let my fancy weave a myth, but I will just accept life as is, and if there is something higher out there, I offer my deepest thanks for all the blessings I received." That's not rejecting God, it's simply not presuming anything we cannot understand.
The empiricist you describe is a non-believer who is hedging his bets. That does not relieve him of his status as a non-believer. Of course I am very concerned about them. But closer to the conversation, I am also concerned about the empiricist who has faith in SOME things, but rejects MANY others because they don't fit a mathematical formula. I would think that an empiricist would be very interested in things like internal logic. However, I am unsure, YET, how to deal with an empiricist who says "I am an empiricist, and I have a faith in Christianity which makes no sense at all!". :)
Gnosticism is well defined. It holds that spirits pre-existed their bodies ...
Whether a spirit "pre-exists" a physical body must be defined in terms of God's knowledge and plan (intent). If this is part of your belief that Reformers are Gnostic, could you tell us what you think our view of this is based on this parameter?
FK: "I have been saying that our faith is indeed a reasonable (reasoned) one, but with the prerequisite that we start with Godly presuppositions."
There you go again with that a priori acceptance. Like I said, once you accept something on blind faith, everything else then becomes self-evident "truth."
I know that you believe that Baptism has salvational effects, and that Chrismation sort of "seals the deal". Since these happen at such a young age, how do you see the cause of actual initial faith? Is it simply a person making a decision for himself to believe?
FK: "Without [Godly presuppositions], God's word is nonsense."
Objection! Assumption.
No, there's no assumption:
Ezek 36:26-27 : 26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws.
Do you believe that people choose God without the above having first taken place?
FK: "... but with [Godly presuppositions] I think the faith makes perfect sense.
I am glad you said "I think" because you are not sure, are you? There is some "empiricist' still left in you, FK. :)
I am VERY sure, well beyond a "reasonable doubt". :) I am confident in saying that because by the reasonable doubt standard I would be willing to bet the life of another man. But here I am willing to bet my own life.
I just didn't want to speak for anyone else because we all describe our certainty in different ways. :)
I noticed “the slight” too in his comment.. but gave it the Curly(Howard) salute.. My thought is he may not know the Holy Spirit which payback enough.. pityful enough.. deserving of prayer even.. which I invested in..