[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you for sharing your views!

But truly, I will not respond to "strawmen." I never raised issue with the canon or the canonization process or with Tertullian.

My point was an academic one - whenever the Catholic/Orthodox Church claims that everyone everywhere believed thus and so, that claim is empty because of their own actions (or inactions) in eliminating from the historical record the documents which evidence beliefs the earliest Christians held but that the powers that be in the Church did not hold.

It is how you live and what you do that tells more about your faith than all the words we have poured out in these forums.

That is the "fruits of the Spirit" test in Matthew 7. The fruits are the Spirit's not ours. Without Christ, we can do nothing.

Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither [can] a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. - Matthew 7:15-20

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. - Galatians 5:22-23

I am the vine, ye [are] the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. – John 15:5

You said:

The first thing to relaize, when eschewing all traditions of men, is to start wiht your own.

Personally, I eschew all of the doctrines and traditions of men across the board. That's why I label my personal views as "musings."

Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men. – Mark 7:7

You also said:

My objection to all of you Bible quoters is that faith is yours and yours only. It is your reality, whether it is real or not in the absolute sense. If you find "proof" or profit in the Bible, so be it, but do not push your faith on anyone, as faith is neither provable nor disprovable.

The power of God is Jesus Christ, the living Word of God. He is His own “proof.” But only those with “ears to hear” can understand it.

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned. – I Corinthians 2:15

And my speech and my preaching [was] not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God. – I Corinthians 2:1-5

But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God. – I Cor 1:24

You also said:

So, please do not inundate me with bible quotes unles absolutely necessary. It turns me off because, no matter how you look at it, in the end it is still a human choice.

The pagans and atheists on the forum frequently make the same request and also frequently demand physical proofs as you have.

My response to anyone making such requests is “no dice.” My words are moot and thus, spare – the words of God are powerful and effective. Those of us who love God have a duty to convey them. The sower sows even though the words of God do not always fall on fertile ground (Parable of the Sower, Matthew 13.)

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life. - John 6:63

For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater: So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper [in the thing] whereto I sent it. - Isaiah 55:10-11

So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, [son] of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs. He saith to him again the second time, Simon, [son] of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep. He saith unto him the third time, Simon, [son] of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep. Verily, verily, I say unto thee, When thou wast young, thou girdedst thyself, and walkedst whither thou wouldest: but when thou shalt be old, thou shalt stretch forth thy hands, and another shall gird thee, and carry [thee] whither thou wouldest not. This spake he, signifying by what death he should glorify God. And when he had spoken this, he saith unto him, Follow me. – John 21:15-19

To God be the glory, not man, never man.

[Kolokotronis]

” My point was an academic one - whenever the Catholic/Orthodox Church claims that everyone everywhere believed thus and so, that claim is empty because of their own actions (or inactions) in eliminating from the historical record the documents which evidence beliefs the earliest Christians held but that the powers that be in the Church did not hold.”

You clearly misunderstand our point. The Church always and everywhere has believed the same things and worshiped in the same manner with minor variations. Heretics, which have been around since Acts in greater or lesser numbers, have not believed the same things The Church has. That’s why we call them heretics, AG. Thus, what you call the “beliefs of the earliest Christians” evidence of which you say The Church destroyed, were really the beliefs of heretics, not Christians.