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To: the_conscience; kosta50; Forest Keeper; irishtenor; wmfights
“(BTW, that would exclude any indirect references to old testament Jewish customs)”

My partner is Jewish, the son-in-law of a former Chief Rabbi of Budapest. Every time he attends a service or a Divine Liturgy at our Greek Orthodox Church, he comes away marveling that he could have been at a Temple ceremony, as he understands they were, except for the obvious differences. His father-in-law has confirmed this to me many times. You’re going to have to look elsewhere for evidence undermining the continuing and ancient character of our Divine Liturgies, tc.

What kosta has presented is what those of us who are Orthodox have been saying here on FR for years. We believe the same things and worship God in the same way as the bishops who determined the canon of the NT in the 4th century. This is just a statement of historical fact. Personally, I don’t understand why Christians who are committed to the notion that the HS inerrantly guides its people to correctly interpret scripture have a problem accepting what is simply history.

2,253 posted on 02/18/2008 6:34:35 PM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: Kolokotronis; the_conscience; kosta50; Forest Keeper; irishtenor
We believe the same things and worship God in the same way as the bishops who determined the canon of the NT in the 4th century.

The basic flaw in what you are saying is "the bishops who determined the canon". The bishops recognized the writings that were inspired and the inerrant Word of God. Christians during the preceding 275 years had already done the same. A group of Christians making a pronouncement did not all of a sudden change these writings from uninspired to inspired.

Also, where was your sister congregation from Rome during this process? How did Jerome know which books to include in his Latin Vulgate? He started his translation before any council had met.

2,273 posted on 02/19/2008 7:50:46 AM PST by wmfights (Believe - THE GOSPEL - and be saved)
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To: Kolokotronis; kosta50; Forest Keeper; irishtenor; wmfights; Dr. Eckleburg; Quix; Agrarian
***You’re going to have to look elsewhere for evidence undermining the continuing and ancient character of our Divine Liturgies, tc.***

I was not making an argument against the "continuing and ancient character of [your] divine liturgies". My point was to show kosta his empirical epistemology is untenable and that he applies it differently for the word of God and the Greek church.

But since you brought it up K, it is disappointing that the Greek church never matured as the author of Hebrews called the Church to do. Why is it that the Greek church is still playing with the old covenant when a better covenant has been installed? Why is it that the Greek church is still playing with copies and shadows when what those represented to the Jews has been fulfilled in Christ?

Therefore leaving the elementary teaching about the Christ, let us press on to maturity....For when the priesthood is changed, of necessity there takes place a change of law also....For it was fitting for us to have such a high priest, holy, innocent, undefiled, separated form sinners and exalted above the heavens; who does not need daily, like those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for his own sins and then for the sins of the people, because this He did once for all when He offered up Himself.

2,330 posted on 02/19/2008 6:10:50 PM PST by the_conscience ('The human mind is a perpetual forge of idols'.)
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