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To: kosta50; Dr. Eckleburg; irishtenor; Forest Keeper; blue-duncan; Quix; wmfights; MarkBsnr
The verse simply says believers. Just like the verse before: those who believe and are baptized shall be saved. It doesn't mean "some" of those who believe and are baptized, HD. It means all who believe and are baptized shall be saved

This is an excellent example of how people read into the text things that are not there. Consider the text:

Do you see the word "all" anywhere in this text? It doesn't say "all believers". It simply states that miraculouse signs will follow to those believing these things. It also does not mention that you have to be baptized to be saved; only that those who do not believe are not saved.

If people would pay closer attention to what the text ACTUALLY states versus what they THINK the text states, it would make our Calvinist teaching a little bit easier.

2,041 posted on 02/14/2008 1:42:21 AM PST by HarleyD
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To: HarleyD; Alamo-Girl

I think it’s hazardous to infer and extrapolate . . .

Nevertheless, imho,

ANYONE WHO earnestly TAKES GOD AT HIS WORD

AND earnestly APPLIES IT IN THEIR LIVES . . .

can expect to be included in the class of those who reap it’s benefits.

imho, that can functionally end up pretty . . . close to “all,” if not well over that line.

I think the attitude of the heart . . . is critical, as always.


2,045 posted on 02/14/2008 4:10:30 AM PST by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: HarleyD; Dr. Eckleburg; irishtenor; Forest Keeper; blue-duncan; Quix; wmfights; MarkBsnr
Do you see the word "all" anywhere in this text? It doesn't say "all believers". It simply states that miraculouse signs will follow to those believing these things

Those who believe means all those believe, not some, HD.

It also does not mention that you have to be baptized to be saved

No but it makes it very clear that the ones who believe and are baptized shall be saved. It also makes it clear that those who are baptized but do not believe will not be. This of course flies in the face of all the other "salvational formulas" one finds all over the NT. Take your pick.

2,054 posted on 02/14/2008 7:28:37 AM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: HarleyD

***He who believes and is baptized will be saved***

This statement, which is without any sort of conditions, means that it is true for all who:

1) believe
2) are baptized

Sounds pretty plain to me.


2,239 posted on 02/18/2008 4:09:00 PM PST by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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