BTW,
I don’t see posters from my perspective as RC bashers.
We do vigorously attack what we see as
VERY UNBIBLICAL IDOLATRY AND BLASPHEMY.
RC reps hereon seem to have a genetic incapacity to distinguish between their persons as individuals vs those things which they think, believe, hold dear etc.
Products, pontifications, beliefs, thoughts, opinions etc. are not particularly sacred, sacrosanct, above and beyond all question etc. We are sorry ?Mary? did not teach you better. But ridiculous pontifications will be treated as ridiculous pontifications—NOT as holy writ.
AS well we and any Christian should in any Brother’s life.
. . . if they care, that is.
The RC edifice represented hereon seems to have an extremely difficult to impossible attitude toward
ACCEPTING, DEALING WITH, HANDLING REMOTELY WELL
such things as . . . Protty’s conviction based solidly on evidence and Scripture that . . .
1. The RC edifice did NOT begin until about 300-400 years after Christ when the Roman contingent of Christendom had sufficient political power to ‘lord it over’ the rest of Christendom, more or less wholesale.
2. The Maryolatry stuff is outrageously UNBiblical AND OUTRAGEOUSLY hostile to a number of clear Scriptures AND hostile to God’s priorities in such matters as well as God’s requirments and boundaries in such matters.
3. The arrogance of the RC edifice is legendary in a list of ways and persistently demonstrated hereon in the form of thin skinned sensibilities and running to daddy RM at the drop of a hat for the thinnest of excuses. This is the real world. It is not a sheltered cloister nor the pillow on Mary’s lap. It’s the real world. We fiercely disagree based on what we are convinced is SOLID HISTORICAL TRUTH AS WELL AS SOLID BIBLICAL TRUTH. Deal with it—like adults instead of whining 2 year olds.
4. IF the RC edifice represented hereon is determined to post fiercely provocative, idolatrous, blasphemous paeons to Mary in open forum contexts . . . they can expect fierce responses. We owe our Lord and the lurkers that much to stand up for truth against such hideous UNBiblical hogwash.
5. The idolatrous nature of the Maryolatry stuff is obvious to virtually any fair-minded person who’s paid the least bit of attention to the religion forum for most of FR’s existence. The number of lines devoted to Mary vs devoted to Jesus—I think totally—but certainly in the open forum has to be outrageously beyond those devoted exclusively to Jesus. There’s hardly a week that has gone by without that being abundantly true. Still the RC edifice hereon would have us believe that Jesus is first. ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS. But actually, hereon, the actions and words concur saying the same idolatrous, blasphemous stuff.
6. PRETENDING that pontifications, thoughts, feelings, sensibilities, preferences, opinions, traditions, dogma etc. are all HOLY OF HOLIES SACROSANCT AND UNTOUCHABLE by any disagreeable comment is childish, idiotic, silly, unrealistic, arrogant . . . on the face of it. The RC reps hereon get ABSOLUTELY FOAMING AT THE MOUTH OUTRAGED IF the Prottys gets remotely close to even hinting of taking such a stance. Great double standard, that.
7. Ridiculous posts and attitudes WARRANT, EARN, DESERVE absurd responses, outrageous responses. What a surprise. Grow up. Expect it. Very often just the title of RC posts hereon is outrageous—outrageously UNBIBLICAL, outrageously provocative; outrageously tweaky . . . etc. Yet when we respond accordingly the indignant affronted response is how dare we think of it as it is. Cute.
8. IF this thread had been titled as a lot of RC threads seem to be deliberately titled . . . it would have carried a title something like: HORRID MEXICAN AND PERUVIAN ROMAN CATHOLIC IDOLATROUS BLASPHEMOUS PRACTICES OBSERVED FIRST HAND. But the poster was more gentle than that.
9. I’m used to being personally bashed for a long list of reasons—some rational and some less so. Kind of goes with being me. However, I learned a long time ago as a Pentecostal—folks were either wrong or they were right or they were a mixture of right AND wrong about Pentecostalism in general and particularly about my specific expression of it. If they were wrong wholesale—it was their problem—all the more so if I tried to set them right and they insisted on a wrong perspective.
10. IF they were both wrong AND right, I tried to learn as much as I could just as I did even when they were wholesale wrong. If they were right, I tried to learn as much as I could. I learned to avoid treating every whiff of displeasure about Pentecostalism as a personal insult—EVEN WHEN IT WAS INTENDED AS A PERSONAL INSULT. Pentecostalism is my belief system. It’s not my identity in any exclusively personal essence sense.
11. My God is bigger even than Pentecostalism. My relationship with God is bigger than Pentecostalism. My worth to God is bigger than Pentecostalism. God is CERTAINLY bigger than assaults on me over Pentecostalism.
12. SURE I COULD get all bent out of shape every time I turned around because folks didn’t realize that Pentecostalism is the most accurate reading of Scripture and Christian life in a long list of ways. So what. What would that prove? That I had thin skin; needed to obsessively jump to conclusions in relentless knee jerk fashion and run around like chicken little delcaring that Christianity was falling because everyone didn’t believe exactly like me? Grow up, Quix, big deal.
13. This is a rare opportunity to share time and space hereon. All the rarer to have a diversity of Christianity represented hereon with shared conservative values. We do not NEED to relentlessly shoot each other with Bible verses or magicsterical pontifications or twisted histories or any other nonsense. Doing so can’t be all that blessed to God. Nor to Mary, for that matter, IF she is allowed to know anything about any such mortal nonsense in her period of rest.
14. It is reasonable for us to use one another as foils to some degree as we write to the lurkers. That’s too big a mission field for any serious Christian of any flavor to pass up if they are thinking and caring for the lost, confused, undecided . . . at all. But to demand an exclusive perch on the highest obelisk from which to talk down to all others of the slightest difference in persuasion and perspective . . . . . in the haughtiest, most self-righteous tones. . . . is to make of one’s self an outrageously pontifical piggish prig—and deserves to be treated accordingly. .
15. It’s not so reasonable to treat the other side as scum of the earth BECAUSE they don’t construe reality exactly as we do or because they won’t talk to us as we demand to be addressed. THEY, are the THEY. WE are ourselves. Clones we ain’t and aren’t going to be. Get over it. Grow up. Deal with it.
16. As to being worth the effort of trying to dialogue seriously . . . any human being was worth Christ’s horrid death. I suspect He expects us to treat folks as worth more than haughty disdain, as well—loving our enemies kind of requires some level of that, somehow.
17. In any case, I suspect many on my side will continue to “BASH” what we perceive, observe, construe as idolatry and blasphemy. RC’s can mistakenly pretend that we are BASHING THEIR PERSONS, THEIR ESSENCE, THEIR INDIVIDUAL IDENTITIES . . . and wail and whine accordingly. But that won’t impress us in the least.
18. If the RC edifice, dogmas, sensibilities, preferences, constructions on reality are so fragile and so easily woundable . . . so seemingly devastatingly . . . then they weren’t worth much in the first place. If such beliefs and practices are worth anything, then I’d think that they would be worth at least holding somewhat maturely, somehat loosely in terms of dialogue with others who see the world differently.
19. Failure to hold opinions, debatable constructions on reality etc. at least somewhat loosely . . . is itself evidence of idolatry. None of us has an absolute corner on reality, truth, righteousness . . . acting otherwise is outrageous arrogance.
20. The choice resides with each of us. We can be even fierce proponents of our perspectives. But if we wish to act like 4 year old school yard bullies with a huge chip on our shoulders . . . then we can expect that sooner or later, some sharp words, swords or arrows will pierce the chip or knock it off and deservedly so.
From a friend of mine in the Netherlands.
################
Fw: “Killed By friendly fire”
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 10:32:22 +0100
1/16/2008 12:52 AM
This evening I was talking to our friend Teus about the army of the Lord and the so-called forerunners that are waiting for new orders!
They must wait a little longer, because the Lord is bringing His Army into one accord in open line!
Suddenly, the Lord brought an incident which happened with our soldiers into my mind!
Two of them where shot by so-called “friendly fire”.
I am sitting at the computer and I am waiting for the Word He wants to speak:
“My children, there is a lot going on.
My faithful ones are almost ready to go!
But there are two divisions in My Army.....
There are the forerunners, the ones who were on the front, calling for others to wake up, while others were still stuck in their rules and doctrines.
And I want to say about those...
That I make them ready now, to get them out of their comfort zones, to also stand up for ME!
I need to say to My forerunners to stand still for a little moment!
They are almost hit by by their own fire!
Perhaps they wonder why this is necessary, this period of waiting.....this barren time,
But My army must be one, they must understand each other and listen to Me!
Also, I have a word of admonishment:
Some of My children are shooting their own brothers and sisters with “friendly fire”and ammunition from My Word!
They use My Word to judge and I do not tell them to do this!
Give Me the space to do what I need to do through My Spirit, to make them all ready for what is coming!
Do not wound each other! Stop firing your judgements like bullets!
An army that wounds or kills each other will become totally powerless and it will be impossible to work with each other!
Give your heart to Me, tell Me what is eating you....and what you think you see in that other person that you think is so wrong....
I can read the heart, only I know who is faithful......
You are not each others’ enemy!
For your wrestling is not against flesh and blood, but against the principalities, against the powers,
against the world’s rulers of the darkness of this age, and against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places.
You do not fight against each other!
You are tearing down My Body!
Stop doing this! I am gathering you!
The forerunners need to stop and wait for a while so the others have the change to prepare
themselves for what will soon begin!
Are you ready?
Do not be scared. I live within you. My Spirit that resides in you is powerful!
Don’t be ruthless either- that is also not good!
My army needs to listen to My voice and then act on what I tell them to do!
The bullets that you will need to shoot must be ordered by Me, out of My Word, that will convict those
I have prepared to receive them, and it will change circumstances.
Love one another!
Know I see everything and I hear everything!
Each word that you speak not according to My Will is hurting My heart!
Every word that hurts one of My children hurts Me also!
How can you say that you love me, if you hate Me living inside of your brother?
You walk in darkness then, not in My light!
Repent from this evildoing, give your hatred and bitterness and jealousy to Me!
I will replace this with My Love!”
Your Father!
1 John 2.
8 Again, I write a new commandment to you, which is true in him and in you; because the darkness is passing away, and the true light already shines. 9 He who says he is in the light and hates his brother, is in the darkness even until now. 10 He who loves his brother remains in the light, and there is no occasion for stumbling in him. 11 But he who hates his brother is in the darkness, and walks in the darkness, and doesn’t know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.
3. 1 John 3,15 , 20
He who doesn’t love his brother remains in death. 15 Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life remaining in him.
20 If a man says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who doesn’t love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen? 21 This commandment we have from him, that he who loves God should also love his brother.
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Catharina Schouten
www.tesjoeva.nl
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