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[Dr. E. to A-G:] AMEN! This is the nagging fear and doubt that nearly drove Luther mad. In struggling to be righteous in his own mind and heart, and to perform enough good works he realized nothing he could do would be good enough to merit salvation.

And AMEN to your AMEN! :) That's a great historical reminder that the issues we have today are in many cases the same as they were at the beginning of the Reformation. One difference would be in what has been made up since. :)

Some say we blithely think we're saved and that's the end of it. But in reality while this fact may be easy to read in the Bible, it's not so easy to really, truly believe that Christ has done it all for us. Trusting God completely is not in our DNA.

AMEN again, Dr. E. We are accused all the time that our theology says that once we "know" we are saved, what use is there in leading a Christian life? Why not just go out and live for wine, women (or men, or whatever they call the third option nowadays) and song? YET, in my perusals of tens of thousands of posts in my short time here, I have never once, not a single time, read a Bible believing Christian espouse such a philosophy. In fact, by the testimonies I've read, it is rather the Bible believing Christians who are really pulling the wagon, and doing Kingdom work. How can that be?

In further fact, there are many of my Baptist brethren, who believe in the plain meaning of OSAS, those who would be MOST susceptible to shirking Christian responsibility, who are among the most active among those I know. How can this be? It can be because the accusation is FALSE and hollow. Changed hearts do not care about earning points, changed hearts WANT to serve God, so they DO! :) As you said, it is not in our DNA to trust God completely so God changes our DNA to make it happen. After that, selfish desires go way down and desires to love and obey God go way up.

Amen to your post.

First, the fact is that is what the scripture clearly says, so those who reject it have to have to deal with God about it.

Second, if anyone is doing works in order to get saved, he does not have perfect love,(1Jn.5:15-18) but is operating from fear, which perfect love drives out.

1Cor.13 is discussing the role of love in performing works and that means that fear cannot be present.

The 'faith plus works' crowd want to ignore clear scripture and the fact that God is quite capable of dealing with those who are saved but reject their Christian walk, by discipline on earth, (Gal.6), even to the sin unto death (1Jn.5), and losses of reward in heaven (2Jn).

What upsets the 'faith plus works' group is that they cannot understand that this is God's plan, not theirs.

...there are many of my Baptist brethren, who believe in the plain meaning of OSAS, those who would be MOST susceptible to shirking Christian responsibility, who are among the most active among those I know.

Wonderful!

2Tim.1:7 For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind.

It's all from God.

All we have to do is believe. The indwelling Holy Spirit will guide us to where God wants us. It is not fear of being thrown into hell that guides us. It is the love of our Father in heaven and our Saviour His Son. Works reveal the completed act and the indwelling Holy Spirit.

James 2:20 But do you know, O foolish man , that faith without works is dead?

One of the most misunderstood verses. The works only reveal what is already there. The works did not put the Holy Spirit in the believer. The thief on the cross did not have the opportunity to do any works, but he was saved.

I am confident that all of the elect on these threads could point out how they've changed over the years. How the desire to do bad things has diminished and the desire to please God has become more and more important.

Changed hearts do not care about earning points, changed hearts WANT to serve God, so they DO! :) As you said, it is not in our DNA to trust God completely so God changes our DNA to make it happen. After that, selfish desires go way down and desires to love and obey God go way up.

Great post F-K and wmfights! I was meditating on the following verse in Romans:

Rom 4:19-22 And not being weak in faith, he did not consider his own body already dead (being about a hundred years old) or the deadening of Sarah's womb. He did not stagger at the promise of God through unbelief, but was strong in faith, giving glory to God, and being fully persuaded that what God had promised, He was also able to perform. And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.

It wasn't that Abraham had to try to bear fruit. Abraham believed God would bear fruit through him. He believed the promise of God. It was this trust that God would bear fruit through him that was imputed to Abraham as righteousness.

Likewise, true believers rest upon the promises of God. It is resting on these promises that helps us to grow stronger in our faith.