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To: Uncle Chip; wmfights; Kolokotronis; MarkBsnr; stfassisi
I suggest you go broad brush up on the Croatian Catholic Ustashi, then that mass murdering frequent visitor to the Vatican named Anton Pavelich, then his immediate superior and collaborator Archbishop Alois Stepinac convicted after the war and then rewarded with a Cardinal's hat...

I see you've read up on the Ustashe and the sad fact that some Catholic officials were implicated indirectly and directly in the Croatian death camps for the Serbs, Jews and Gypsies, where unspeakable atrocities have been committed.

You are also right that some Croatian Vatican officials provided a "ratline" that enabled many an Ustasha official to slip out of the post WWII communist Yugoslavia. In fact, Ante Pavelich ended up in Franco's Spain at first, a country that was openly pro fascist (with the hand salute and all) for many years after the end of WWII and was also on very good terms with the US.

But you are wrong that the Catholic Church (beginning with the Vatican and the Pope) endorsed, planned, executed, supported or condoned or knew in full what Croatia (NDH) did with the Serbs. It was not a Catholic operation, UC. To claim that is a gross mischaracterization of facts.

On a local level, some Catholic clergy crossed the line and engaged in actual killing, but most were simply obeying their bishops in forcibly converting the "heretic" (Orthodox) Serbs as per State of Croatia executive order signed by Ante Pavelich, and because the Vatican at that time still supported re-absorption (Uniatism) of Eastern Orthodox into the Roman fold.

Pavelich's state proposed the "final solution" for it Serbian population (at that time it was 25%; in 1990 it was 12.5; today is less than 4%— it's the largest ethnic cleaning in the Balkans, and no one in Washington talks how bad that is).

That final solution was named the Solution of Threes. One third of the Serbs was to be forcibly brought back into the Roman fold; onenthird was to be killed in several concentration camps, the largest being Jasenovac (Yasenovats), and one thrid was to be deported to Serbia proper. All tis was a croatian state doing. Whatever Catholic officials were involved it was not the policy of the Vatican State.

Needless to say, Cardinal Stepinac was condemned by a communist court. You recognize communist courts? I am not sure if he was implicated, if he knew and if he condoned. I can't judge that. It is certainly not a clear-cut case.

And no, the full extent of the atrocities committed by Croatian nationals and Bosnian Muslims was not known, just as the full extent of the Holocaust was not known until American Actually walked into those camps and saw the piles of bodies and the ovens.

As far as I know, there is no proof that the official Vatican was involved in any of that. If you can provide indisputable proof, then please do.

However, once the extent was known the US did not pressure Franco to spit our Pavelich to face a trial for crimes against humanity and America's Orthgodox allies. Pavelich died 14 years after the end of WWII and never faced a trial.

1,815 posted on 02/09/2008 7:22:36 PM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50
I realize that it was not a Vatican operation, but when it takes place in their own backyard and when the people involved are making regular trips back and forth from Croatian death camps to the Vatican, and it is taking place on such an unprecedented scale [500,000 killed] that it cannot be hidden, the circumstantial evidence of alteast Vatican approbation is a bit overwhelming.

Needless to say the Serbian Holocaust remains a sad chapter in the history of WWII, a chapter quickly swept under the rug, not finding its way into any history books that I ever read, but uncovered and written unforgettably in many of the books published by evangelicals -- the same evangelicals who were appalled by Clinton and NATO's 1996 war against the Serbs, and our continual support of the KLA terror state, along with other Muslim causes.

Why this goes on is a mystery to all of us except that we are inviting within our midst the seeds of our own destruction. The politically-correct and the religiously-correct crowd, which includes the Communists and Socialists and Democrats and RINO Republicans have all laid the ground work and opened the door for a Muslim infiltration at all levels of society in such a way that people are seemingly blind to it going on around them.

Our failure to support the Serbs against the Muslim terrorist KLA, to support Israel against the Palestinian Muslims, to call a Muslim terrorist a Muslim terrorist, to allow Muslim oil money to buy our foreign and domestic policies is going to cost us dearly -- unfortunately.

1,827 posted on 02/10/2008 4:39:04 AM PST by Uncle Chip (TRUTH : Ignore it. Deride it. Allegorize it. Interpret it. But you can't ESCAPE it.)
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To: kosta50; Uncle Chip; wmfights; Kolokotronis; MarkBsnr; stfassisi
That final solution was named the Solution of Threes. One third of the Serbs was to be forcibly brought back into the Roman fold; onenthird was to be killed in several concentration camps, the largest being Jasenovac (Yasenovats), and one thrid was to be deported to Serbia proper. All tis was a croatian state doing. Whatever Catholic officials were involved it was not the policy of the Vatican State.

Did the Vatican State know what was going on and if so what did they do to stop it? Is this another example of what we discussed earlier where organizations become "organisms of sorts" and protection of the organization becomes more important than the mission.

I assume that all of us find these atrocities sickening.

1,828 posted on 02/10/2008 6:28:30 AM PST by wmfights (Believe - THE GOSPEL - and be saved)
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