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To: Forest Keeper

***If a good Christian decides to use his free will to perform good works then he will be saved. However, if a good Christian uses his free will and decides not to do good works, then he is damned. God will examine all the good Christians and judge them based on the merit of their good works, whether in quantity or quality, or by some other measure. Whatever God’s threshold is, those who have done “enough” will see Heaven, and those who haven’t done enough, regardless of faith, will be sent to the down escalator.***

Grace gets us to the point where we are able to walk the Way. Else, we do not even get to be considered. In final answer, though, I will give you Matt 25:

31
“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit upon his glorious throne,
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and all the nations will be assembled before him. And he will separate them one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.
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He will place the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
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Then the king will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father. Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
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For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, a stranger and you welcomed me,
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naked and you clothed me, ill and you cared for me, in prison and you visited me.’
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Then the righteous will answer him and say, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink?
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When did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you?
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When did we see you ill or in prison, and visit you?’
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And the king will say to them in reply, ‘Amen, I say to you, whatever you did for one of these least brothers of mine, you did for me.’
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Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
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For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink,
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a stranger and you gave me no welcome, naked and you gave me no clothing, ill and in prison, and you did not care for me.’
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Then they will answer and say, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or ill or in prison, and not minister to your needs?’
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He will answer them, ‘Amen, I say to you, what you did not do for one of these least ones, you did not do for me.’
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And these will go off to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

And so, in a way, you are sort of right.

But I ask of the Reformed, though, what these verses mean to them. If deeds are not important, then why are they Judged? And why does God tell us that if we don’t then we’ll go off to eternal punishment?


1,649 posted on 02/08/2008 1:54:51 PM PST by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: MarkBsnr; kosta50; irishtenor; Dr. Eckleburg; Alamo-Girl; Mad Dawg; the_conscience; wmfights; ...
But I ask of the Reformed, though, what these verses [Matt. 25:31-46] mean to them. If deeds are not important, then why are they Judged? And why does God tell us that if we don’t then we’ll go off to eternal punishment?

Well, on one level we do have the concept of a reward judgment that we disagree about. We think some verses talk about that, but that's a separate discussion. On your quote from Matthew, I don't think any of us would say that deeds are not important. We just don't think they are a separate and independent component of salvation. In every case a changed heart results in true faith which saves. Also in every case true faith will result in deeds pleasing to God. They are all part of one thing that God has given us, so God gets all the credit. Therefore, we don't see it as a cooperation since it is all of God.

So, for the Matthew passage we see this perfectly played out. The sheep on the right hand were those with true faith given by God. Jesus says: "‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father. Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world." They were blessed, implying that the goats were not so blessed. And, we note that the Kingdom was NOT prepared for whoever "made it". No, it was specifically prepared ONLY for those God so blessed.

Those so blessed were the only ones capable of feeding and giving drink and welcoming and clothing and caring for and visiting. And ALL of them DID because God promises that not one will be lost whom the Father gave to Christ before the foundations:

John 10:27-29 : 27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand.

Conversely, the goats did not do deeds pleasing to God because they never had true faith. God passed them over, and so they were not saved.

1,916 posted on 02/12/2008 12:12:03 AM PST by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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