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To: Marysecretary

“But even so, their lives were never the same after the resurrection. Spiritually they were changed.”

Don’t you think it was the Pentecost event that caused the change in their thinking and lives? It seems to me that even at the time of Jesus’ ascension they were still thinking in terms of an earthly kingdom and their places in it?


1,452 posted on 02/06/2008 9:48:58 AM PST by blue-duncan
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To: blue-duncan

I’m sure you’re right but the resurrection HAD to have impacted them. Once anyone is filled with the HS, their lives change.


1,456 posted on 02/06/2008 12:01:18 PM PST by Marysecretary (GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL.)
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To: blue-duncan; Marysecretary
It seems to me that even at the time of Jesus’ ascension they were still thinking in terms of an earthly kingdom and their places in it?

Absolutely. It was perfectly consistent with Judaic expectation of an earthly, human Messiah, a favorite of God (God's adopted, not littera, Son—a title reserved for angles and kings, who were anointed, which is what meshiyah/messiah means).

In fact, the first three Gospels never say that Jesus is God (they call Him Lord, but that's not reserved only for God), and they never pray to the Resurrected Christ or to the Holy Spirit. The verses you posted on the rich man and a beggar show that Luke (post resurrection) still did not have a concept of heaven, but only of Shoel.

In Judaism such terminology as the Kingdom of God, World to Come, Son of God, Son of Man, Messiah, Spirit (of God), etc. have completely different menings from those created by Christians.

This is like reading Robert Frost who says "my horse must think it queer to stop without a farmhouse near..." and not realize that the meaning of the word "queer" had undergone a radical change between 1920's and 1970's.

The Kingdom of God to the Jews means Israel, on earth. The Son of God is a title of God's favorites (angels and kings); the word messiah means the anointed one, a kingly human mortal whose identity must meet seven qualifying characteristics, of which Jesus meets only one! So, no wonder they didn't want to accept Him as messiah. The word Son of Man (ben adam) means simply the son of Adam, a descendent of Adam, a human being, of Adam's seed, etc. In Christianity the Son of man has this mysterious aura surrounding only Jesus.

Christian theology, like the bible, did not just fall from the sky, neatly tallied and organized into chapters and lessons. It had to undergo its own evolution which took most of the remining first century and then a few centuries to come. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to relaize thet Paul didn't always teach what the Christians teach today. He calls Jesus an "image of God" and is someone who was "raised by God" but he never calls Him God, nor does he pray to the Resurrected Jesus.

1,460 posted on 02/06/2008 5:01:36 PM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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