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To: StAthanasiustheGreat; Quix; blue-duncan; 1000 silverlings; Lord_Calvinus; wmfights; ...
And therein lies the problem with some of these "Church communities", they are almost gnostic in their requirement for secret knowledge of scripture.

I don't know of any "requirement for secret knowledge of Scripture" in Bible-believing churches. The Scriptures are open to all men. We're not the ones who chained the Bible to an altar.

God's election is His own business. Why He gives faith in His Son to some and not to others is for God to know alone.

But the Bible tells us Christ came to cast the light of truth into all the dark corners of the world, especially into those dusty, dank crevices where men think their "good works" will save them.

"But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." -- 1 Corinthians 2:7-14


"Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen." -- Romans 16:25-27


"Jesus answered him, I spake openly to the world; I ever taught in the synagogue, and in the temple, whither the Jews always resort; and in secret have I said nothing." -- John 18:20

Now you may not understand the Bible, but that's not the same thing as saying the Bible is incapable of being understood...by those whom God has given eyes to see and ears to hear.

1,328 posted on 02/05/2008 3:00:04 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

***Now you may not understand the Bible, but that’s not the same thing as saying the Bible is incapable of being understood...by those whom God has given eyes to see and ears to hear.***

Exactly. In fact the Bible is very clear that if you do not believe, if you do not understand, it is because God does not WANT you to understand.


1,335 posted on 02/05/2008 3:49:01 PM PST by irishtenor (Check out my blog at http://boompa53.blogspot.com/)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; StAthanasiustheGreat; Quix; blue-duncan; 1000 silverlings; Lord_Calvinus; ...
Thank you so very much for your excellent post and especially those beautiful passages!

Truly, we should never be troubled when anyone pastes the labels “Gnostic” or “secret knowledge” on us.

In the first place, it is God’s will that only those He has blessed with “ears to hear” will hear the Word of God. Truth is hidden in plain view. In effect, they paste the label on God Himself.

Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: For this people's heart is waxed gross, and [their] ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with [their] eyes, and hear with [their] ears, and should understand with [their] heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

But blessed [are] your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear. – Matthew 13:13-16

Moreover, the "ears to hear" are spiritual not physical. The ones Jesus is addressing below were physically hearing Him (sound, pressure waves) – but they could not Spiritually hear Him:

Why do ye not understand my speech? [even] because ye cannot hear my word. – John 8:43

Conversely, His own sheep do hear Him:

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: - John 10:27

And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. – John 6:65

It is not enough to know the Scriptures in a scholarly, secular sense. One must also know the power of God. That is "secret knowledge" to those who don't know the power of God.

Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. – Matthew 22:29

Some of the difference might stem from those theologians who receive the words of God as merely text or language symbols on par with other such text in ancient manuscripts. This is also known as the “historical-critical method” which attempts to be scholarly and secular by denying the power of God on principle.

Among them are those who perceive of Jesus Christ as language-challenged or of God lacking the power to perform His own words including to protect much less authenticate His own words. In effect, such theologians love their own reasoning more than anything or anyone else, including God.

By contrast, we who are personally indwelled by the Spirit know the power of God personally and that the words of God are not mere language symbols but are alive – that they are spirit and they are life.

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life. – John 6:63

But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. - Matthew 4:4

But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. - Romans 8:9

And further, we know that God looks after His words to perform them:

Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, Jeremiah, what seest thou? And I said, I see a rod of an almond tree. Then said the LORD unto me, Thou hast well seen: for I will hasten my word to perform it. – Jer 1:11-12

For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. – Matthew 5:18

Remember the former things of old: for I [am] God, and [there is] none else; [I am] God, and [there is] none like me, Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times [the things] that are not [yet] done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: - Isaiah 46:9-10

It is hardly rational to deny the power of God on principle on the one hand and then accuse those who do not deny His power of being “Gnostic” or having “secret knowledge.”

So whenever those labels are used to revile us, I submit we ought to be joyful.

Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great [is] your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you. - Matthew 5:11-12

To God be the glory!

1,433 posted on 02/06/2008 7:43:11 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
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