Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: Forest Keeper

***None of these men were inspired, but they all have made good contributions to Christianity. Because of this, and out of the goodness of my Christian heart, I have allowed all of them to be wrong on certain issues. :)***

Very good of you.

But there arises the most definite of questions: what is right and what is wrong? How is the truth to be judged? What makes FK right in a particular instance and Calvin or Luther or Augustine or Cyprian wrong? The indwelling HS?

That is a tremendous error on the part of the Reformers which has given rise to the thousands of different denominations, as well as declaring fair game for any individual to develop his/her own theology and hang up a church shingle if he/she chooses.

***If I may be hyper-technical :), a 2.0 is always an improvement on the 1.0. I don’t think God was improving, He was completing. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the OT God that needed fixing. The OT God is exactly the same as the NT God. We just get to see more and more of Him as we page through the Scriptures. So, we get more, not better.***

I think that we might be quibbling here over very little. More, better; okay. Some of both perhaps?

The OT outlines the failure of God to get the Jews to pay attention and prepare themselves for the Messiah. The mission to the Gentiles was a fallback. The Jews are God’s Chosen People and they as a nation have not accepted Jesus Christ as the Messiah. This alone should provide sufficient evidence that God has created us with free will.


1,276 posted on 02/05/2008 5:12:31 AM PST by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1255 | View Replies ]


To: MarkBsnr; HarleyD; Dr. Eckleburg; blue-duncan; wmfights; kosta50
But there arises the most definite of questions: what is right and what is wrong? How is the truth to be judged? What makes FK right in a particular instance and Calvin or Luther or Augustine or Cyprian wrong? The indwelling HS?

The HS leads all believers at varying paces, and all believers reflect the HS's leadership to varying degrees. The ultimate test for anyone or any group of men, is to what degree the teaching follows scripture. And, the way scriptures are interpreted is also governed by the HS per above.

I am not right, and you are wrong, because the HS leads me and does not lead you. The HS leads us both because we are both Christians. There are simply varying results, within time, according to God's plan. It is a virtual certainty that both of us are wrong in some, or even several, of our interpretations. That leaves room for both of us to grow in our faiths. The same applied to all the men we are talking about during their lives.

That is a tremendous error on the part of the Reformers which has given rise to the thousands of different denominations, as well as declaring fair game for any individual to develop his/her own theology and hang up a church shingle if he/she chooses.

There is no error. You can't tell me that if you could snatch any two Popes from history and throw them in the same room they would agree on everything important. There's no way. If they agreed on everything then they were static in the Lord. There could have been no growth. I don't think God cares so much about how many different names hang on the outside of houses of worship. I think He cares much more about what is being proclaimed inside.

More, better; okay. Some of both perhaps?

Sure, good enough. :)

The OT outlines the failure of God to get the Jews to pay attention and prepare themselves for the Messiah. The mission to the Gentiles was a fallback.

That's very Kostalian. :) But how could an omniscient God pursue a course He knows that is doomed to failure on His part? Of course He would not. The failure of the Jews was always part of His plan, which fit neatly and perfectly with His plan to then bring in the Gentiles, as a group. God did not change His mind, He always intended for Gentiles to be saved. In fact, many Gentiles were saved in the OT. For example:

Matt 12:41 : 41 The men of Nineveh will stand up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it; for they repented at the preaching of Jonah, and now one greater than Jonah is here.

And He foretold that He would save Gentiles:

Rom 9:23-25 : 23 What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory— 24 even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles? 25 As he says in Hosea: "I will call them 'my people' who are not my people; and I will call her 'my loved one' who is not my loved one," ...

Therefore, the mission to the Gentiles could NOT have been a fallback. It all happened exactly according to plan.

The Jews are God’s Chosen People and they as a nation have not accepted Jesus Christ as the Messiah. This alone should provide sufficient evidence that God has created us with free will.

Not in the sense that I think you mean it. God is simply not a failure. :) Does it make no sense at all that God used the failure of the Jews to usher in the inclusion of the Gentiles, and that it was all planned? It flows perfectly to me. I mean, we DO have the luxury of 20-20 hindsight. This part is supposed to be easy. :)

1,602 posted on 02/08/2008 1:58:00 AM PST by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1276 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson