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To: Forest Keeper; MarkBsnr; HarleyD; Dr. Eckleburg; blue-duncan; wmfights
It's all about purpose. God had His purpose for doing what He did in the OT. Jesus had a very different purpose on earth when He was here

That is your opinion, FK, not a fact. Hebrews 8 tell a different story. The entire OT is a series of attempts and failures to bring the Jews to stay with God. Apparently, even the New Covenant failed with them and had to be assumed by non-Jews (although that is revealed more as an afterthought than a plan). What purpose did God have to play dice with Hebrews?

1,261 posted on 02/04/2008 9:10:28 PM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50; MarkBsnr; HarleyD; Dr. Eckleburg; blue-duncan; wmfights
FK: "It's all about purpose. God had His purpose for doing what He did in the OT. Jesus had a very different purpose on earth when He was here."

That is your opinion, FK, not a fact. Hebrews 8 tell a different story. The entire OT is a series of attempts and failures to bring the Jews to stay with God.

No, God's plan never failed. Everything that happened did so exactly according to design. In Hebrews 8, presumably you are zooming in on this:

Heb 8:7 : For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another.

Since you have read all of Paul you must know that Paul NEVER presumes to criticize God. He is not doing so here. Paul is noting that the first covenant was insufficient, IOW, it was preparatory. It was not a failure. The sacrifices the OT priests offered were not sufficient to save. Only the sacrifice of the ONE was sufficient. Paul lays all this out plainly in Romans. For example:

Rom 5:18-19 : 18 Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men , so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men . 19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

This is the correct context in which Paul was comparing the covenants. The first covenant did not have this part, and that was by design.

Apparently, even the New Covenant failed with them and had to be assumed by non-Jews (although that is revealed more as an afterthought than a plan). What purpose did God have to play dice with Hebrews?

God does not have "afterthoughts". He is omnipotent and omniscient. His entire plan was formed before the foundations and has always been, and is now being perfectly executed. God plays dice with no one. God wills, and it happens. The God of the Holy Bible is not a God who scrambles to pick up the pieces when something He tries doesn't work out. Such would be some other god.

1,568 posted on 02/07/2008 4:58:26 PM PST by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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