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To: Mad Dawg; 1000 silverlings; Quix; Marysecretary; wmfights; WileyPink; Forest Keeper; ScubieNuc; ...
there are ample opportunities, some even in FR, to find out the real notion that Catholics have...But what I frequently see is people insisting that I believe what I do not in fact believe

Take a step back and consider that every one of us on this forum agrees that you believe what you say you believe, and we would agree that you are in accord with the doctrines and dogma of Rome.

But that is not what is being debated on threads like this.

The doctrine and dogma of the RCC are being debated on threads like this. Mary's supposed sinless nature is being debated. Mary's supposed perpetual virginity is being debated. Mary's supposed bodily ascension into heaven after her death is being debated. Mary as supposed "co-Redeemer" and "Dispensatrix of all grace" is being debated.

So all this about us "telling you what you believe" is nonsense. We can read the catechism. We really do know what you believe.

And we disagree with you and your catechism by the word of God and the power of God. And by God's grace, we support that disagreement with Scripture.

We do believe you when you say you do not think you are praying to a wooden stick when you kneel to a statue of a dead person in church. We believe you think that.

But we think God's word rebukes that practice of what you do -- kneeling to, praying to, asking for intercession, guidance, help, absolution or mediation from, anyone other than the Triune God.

"And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people." -- 2 Corinthians 6:16

1,132 posted on 02/03/2008 5:01:37 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; HarleyD
The doctrine and dogma of the RCC are being debated on threads like this.

That is rarely true. Rarely. IN two ways is it false:

(1) Repetition time and time again of the same quote(s) from Scripture is not any kind of debate at all. WHen it is happening, debate is not happening.

(2)What is often being debated is
(a)What some Protestants SAY they THINK we believe, not what we in fact teach or believe, and therefore
Whether we in fact believe the ridiculous things we are said to believe becomes the subject of debate.

Look at the recent flurry over Tetzel and indulgences. I had to take time out to (a) explain that nobody ever in any way talked about buying one's way out of hell, and (b) do a little work on the difference between hell and purgatory, and (c)try to convey that while I could see that from Harley's point of view that might be merely technical, it actually went right to the heart of the matter.

1,156 posted on 02/04/2008 4:36:33 AM PST by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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