Posted on 01/27/2008 7:56:14 PM PST by Manfred the Wonder Dawg
Ok.
God is merciful to all of us.
I look to His mercy because I fear His just judgment
I have yet to be a part of any congregation thorougly FREE of idolatry.
Keep looking and praying, the Catholic specifically and officially condoms idolatry. The misguided actions of some who veer from the path are not representative of what the Church actually teaches.
Some are just more overt about it.
Again, the Church is unequivocal in her condemnation of worshiping any thing or anyone besides the one true Triune God.
Fair enough. All I was going to ask you was at what point do you think the adoration of Mary changed into her taking on some of the role Jesus told us was his.
TRUE. TRUE.
And now a word from my profession . . . an old friend . . . in a manner of speaking from about 1965 . . . I haven’t heard all of these but the one I had almost memorized:
WHAT TO DO UNTIL THE PSYCHIATRIST COMES . . . is hillarious . . .
and in the itnerest of some MUCH needed humor on these threads . . .
DR MURRAY BANKS LINKS ON YOU TUBE:
PART 1:
HOW TO LIVE WITH YOURSELF PT 1:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=VyOl0-qbDSU&feature=related
JUST IN CASE YOU !THINK! YOUR’E NORMAL PT 1
http://youtube.com/watch?v=eSD1gBdMksc&feature=related
PART 2:
WHAT TO DO UNTIL THE PSYCHIATRIST COMES PT 2:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=1SOExZWn2p4&feature=related
JUST IN CASE YOU THINK YOUR’E NORMAL PT 2
http://youtube.com/watch?v=OCD_fodHvyc&feature=related
PART 3:
WHAT TO DO UNTIL THE PSYCHIATRIST COMES PT 3
http://youtube.com/watch?v=x54WjxnS1t0
JUST IN CASE YOU THINK YOU’RE NORMAL PT 3:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=6u-XxELZ5No&feature=related
PART 4:
WHAT TO DO UNTIL THE PSYCHIATRIST COMES/HOW TO LIVE WITH YOURSELF PT 4:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=kLwIIKmjKS0&feature=related
PART 5:
WHAT TO DO UNTIL THE PSYCHIATRIST COMES PT 5:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=w362IX0nELw&feature=related
JUST IN CASE YOU THINK YOU’RE NORMAL:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=YtBPBkazW8I&feature=related
PART 6:
WHAT TO DO UNTIL THE PSYCHIATRIST COMES PT 6
PART 7
WHAT TO DO UNTIL THE PSYCHIATRIST COMES PT 7:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=-y-o2Yt2WF0&feature=related
###############
DRAMA OF SEX PT 1
http://youtube.com/watch?v=76R43sthtpc
DR MURRAY BANKS THE DRAMA OF SEX PT 2
http://youtube.com/watch?v=1wdsemxc03k
grouped links at you tube:
WHAT YOU CAN LEARN FROM THE KINSEY REPORT PT 2
WHAT YOU CAN LEARN FROM THE KINSEY REPT PT 3
WHAT YOU CAN LEARN FROM THE KINSEY REPT PT 4
Eternal Security is a guarantee of God to His redeemed, denied by the flesh because it (the doctrine) puts all confidence in Christ and the Bible, whereas the flesh wants to brag on itself and how Christ needs help - both in the converting and in the perseverance of the saints.
Study up on the cultural context of being adopted into God’s family (under Roman law, adopted children could not be kicked out of the family), of having the Lord build a room onto the Father’s house (John 14), and of Christ being the ruler of all creation. He needs our help to hold onto the ones He chose in the first place? When the primary goal is to glorify God, He will not fail. And the primary goal the Lord has in redeeming sinful man is His glory. Our salvation is to His glory - its secondary attribute is to our eternal benefit.
‘tis a pitiful god who can’t keep what he declares to be his.
From the Cathechism of the Roman Catholic Church...
"This motherhood of Mary in the order of grace continues uninterruptedly from the consent which she loyally gave at the Annunciation and which she sustained without wavering beneath the cross, until the eternal fulfillment of all the elect. Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation. . . . Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix."969
Mary did not "consent." The Lord told her what was going to happen.
How does her "intercession" aid in our salvation? Christ is the ONLY measure of our atonement. Christ alone saves. How does Mary save anyone?
How does Mary "advocate" or "mediate" for anyone, since there is only One Mediator between God and Man, Christ Jesus?
What "benefits" do men receive from Mary and where is this found in Scripture? All "benefits" come from God alone through Christ alone.
Again, the Church is unequivocal in her condemnation of worshiping any thing or anyone besides the one true Triune God.
The proof is in the doing. And the RCC's "doing" is very different from what you describe.
Sadly.
With all due respect, a loaded question IMO. But I'll answer anyway: I don't believe Mary has usurped any authority of Jesus, now, or ever.
If I did, I would have to leave the CC. The next best Church after the Catholic is the Orthodox IMO, so, even if one could demonstrate that "[at some point] the adoration of Mary changed into her taking on some of the role Jesus told us was His", then such an opponent wouldn't gain much (in terms of making me leave an apostolic Church).
Plenty true. Plenty true.
Thx.
From the Catechism:
Idolatry
2112 The first commandment condemns polytheism. It requires man neither to believe in, nor to venerate, other divinities than the one true God. Scripture constantly recalls this rejection of "idols, [of] silver and gold, the work of men's hands. They have mouths, but do not speak; eyes, but do not see." These empty idols make their worshippers empty: "Those who make them are like them; so are all who trust in them."42 God, however, is the "living God"43 who gives life and intervenes in history.
2113 Idolatry not only refers to false pagan worship. It remains a constant temptation to faith. Idolatry consists in divinizing what is not God. Man commits idolatry whenever he honors and reveres a creature in place of God, whether this be gods or demons (for example, satanism), power, pleasure, race, ancestors, the state, money, etc. Jesus says, "You cannot serve God and mammon."44 Many martyrs died for not adoring "the Beast"45 refusing even to simulate such worship. Idolatry rejects the unique Lordship of God; it is therefore incompatible with communion with God.46
2114 Human life finds its unity in the adoration of the one God. The commandment to worship the Lord alone integrates man and saves him from an endless disintegration. Idolatry is a perversion of man's innate religious sense. An idolater is someone who "transfers his indestructible notion of God to anything other than God."47
'Tis a weak "god" that denies free will to his creation
The saved are those who persevere in faith and obedience.
Well and accurately put.
Thanks.
Only problem with your “free will” position is that it has to be inferred from Scripture because it’s not declared. Contrast that with the Sovereignty of God, having rule over kings, rivers, starts, mountains, and pharaohs - explicit in Scripture from front to back. Man has what can only be described as “apparent free will”. We simply do not comprehend the absolute authority with which God rules.
Romans 9:
“14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that showeth mercy.
17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might show my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22 What if God, willing to show his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?”
Now, hasn't it been said that there is NO OTHER CHURCH other than the Catholic Church? Yet, there is a next best?
Sounds suspiciously close to Mars Hill to me.
May I introduce you to the UNKNOWN GOD?
Acts 17:22 Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars' hill, and said, Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious.
23 For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.
In Christ...Alone!
God's workings are not limited to our ability to comprehend.
lol. "Week?" I try to read him daily. No one knew as much Scripture or the depths of Rome's deceit as did Calvin.
Calvin was just a fallen creature like the rest of us who understood, by the grace of God alone, that Rome had strayed so far from Scripture as to be unrecognizable as the church of God on earth.
And now, thankfully, we all can see how Rome and its Catechism continues to contradict itself from 969 to 2112, which of course is the problem. The RCC says one thing and does another. And sometimes it says both things.
Bible-believing Christians aren't fooled.
If a man kneels to a statue of some dead person, and prays to a statue of some dead person, and asks for guidance and benefits and mediation and intercession and grace and redemption from some dead person...well that looks an awful like like anti-Scriptural idolatry.
At least for those with eyes to see.
And yes, we know we are to make "intercessions" for all our fellow men. That means we are to pray for one another while we are on hearth; no praying to dead people, which is necromancy and explicitly forbidden in God's word. He burneth part thereof in the fire; with part thereof he eateth flesh; he roasteth roast, and is satisfied: yea, he warmeth himself, and saith, Aha, I am warm, I have seen the fire: And the residue thereof he maketh a god, even his graven image: he falleth down unto it, and worshippeth it, and prayeth unto it, and saith, Deliver me; for thou art my god. They have not known nor understood: for he hath shut their eyes, that they cannot see; and their hearts, that they cannot understand. And none considereth in his heart, neither is there knowledge nor understanding to say, I have burned part of it in the fire; yea, also I have baked bread upon the coals thereof; I have roasted flesh, and eaten it: and shall I make the residue thereof an abomination? shall I fall down to the stock of a tree? He feedeth on ashes: a deceived heart hath turned him aside, that he cannot deliver his soul, nor say, Is there not a lie in my right hand?" -- Isaiah 44:15-20"Then shall it be for a man to burn: for he will take thereof, and warm himself; yea, he kindleth it, and baketh bread; yea, he maketh a god, and worshippeth it; he maketh it a graven image, and falleth down thereto.
And I'll pray for all those who ignore these verses or fail to understand the depth of the error of thinking anyone or anything is a mediator, intercessor, benefactress or advocate between God and man other than Christ Jesus.
Read your Bible and know the truth.
No. If anything it would be noted that only the Catholic Church, that is those particular churches in union with the See of Rome enjoy the fullness of Divine Revelation. The simple fact is that the Orthodox are actual Churches possessing apostolic authority and all seven sacraments or mysteries, sadly they are in error over some theological issues(they would say the same of us)
***Given that you are such a wonderful spokesperson for the Calvinists . . .
What is WRONG WITH THEM! Why aren’t THEY acting like 2 year olds in constant outrage that all the 4 year olds don’t agree with their construction on reality?
WHY OH WHY aren’t the Calvinists CONTINUALLY OUTRAGED; foaming at the mouth; flailing about at every falling leaf; terminally incensed; rushing about like a whirling dervish in sack-cloth and ashes . . . because ANYONE in the rest of the world DARES to construe reality differently?
Are the Calvinists lacking in zeal and fervor for The truly truest true truth most truly truthedly trothed? Are THEY LACKING in backbones made of cacti?***
Who yanked your chain, TODAY!!!
Calvin fought to bring the Bible out of the RCC closet. Paul warns against back sliding, but the Bible doesn’t teach that one who is born again can be un-born. The word “salvation” does not alway mean the same thing as conversion. As with nearly every single word, the context reveals its meaning. There is a present tense of being saved that Paul is describing - being saved from today as we run the race, having been saved upon conversion so that we could run.
“God’s workings are not limited to our ability to comprehend.” You and I can agree on this point.
The only contradiction is in your mind. No one can help you if you refuse to be helped.
You are right about the mysteries...
Revelation 17:5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
In Christ...Alone!
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