Posted on 01/27/2008 7:56:14 PM PST by Manfred the Wonder Dawg
January 25, 2008
ESV Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
In recent days I have spent time in Lima and Sullana Peru and Mexico City and I have discovered that people by nature are the same. Man has a heart that is inclined to selfishness and idolatry. Sin abounds in the remotest parts of the land because the heart is desperately wicked. Thousands bow before statues of Mary and pray to her hoping for answers. I have seen these people stare hopelessly at Mary icons, Jesus icons, and a host of dead saints who will do nothing for them. I have talked with people who pray to the pope and say that they love him. I talked with one lady who said that she knew that Jesus was the Savior, but she loved the pope. Thousands bow before Santa Muerte (holy death angel) in hopes that she will do whatever they ask her. I have seen people bring money, burning cigarettes, beer, whiskey, chocolate, plants, and flowers to Santa Muerte in hopes of her answers. I have seen these people bowing on their knees on the concrete in the middle of public places to worship their idol. Millions of people come into the Basilica in Mexico City and pay their money, confess their sins, and stare hopelessly at relics in hope that their sins will be pardoned. In America countless thousands are chained to baseball games, football games, material possessions, and whatever else their heart of idols can produce to worship.
My heart has broken in these last weeks because the God of heaven is not honored as he ought to be honored. People worship the things that are created rather than worshiping the Creator. God has been gracious to all mankind and yet mankind has hardened their hearts against a loving God. God brings the rain on the just and unjust. God brings the beautiful sunrises and sunsets upon the just and unjust. God gives good gifts unto all and above all things he has given his Son that those who would believe in him would be saved. However, man has taken the good things of God and perverted them unto idols and turned their attention away from God. I get a feel for Jesus as he overlooked Jerusalem or Paul as he beseeched for God to save Israel. When you accept the reality of the truth of the glory of God is breaks your heart that people would turn away from the great and awesome God of heaven to serve lesser things. Moses was outraged by the golden calf, the prophets passionately preached against idolatry, Jesus was angered that the temple was changed in an idolatrous business, and Paul preached to the idolaters of Mars Hill by telling them of the unknown God.
I arrived back at home wondering how I should respond to all the idolatry that I have beheld in these last three weeks. I wondered how our church here in the states should respond to all of the idolatry in the world. What are the options? First, I suppose we could sit around and hope that people chose to get their life together and stop being idolaters. However, I do not know how that could ever happen apart from them hearing the truth. Second, I suppose we could spend a lifetime studying cultural issues and customs in hope that we could somehow learn to relate to the people of other countries. However, the bible is quite clear that all men are the same. Men are dead in sin, shaped in iniquity, and by nature are the enemies of God. Thirdly, we could pay other people or other agencies to go and do a work for us while we remain comfortably in the states. However, there is no way to insure that there will be doctrinal accuracy or integrity. If we only pay other people to take the gospel we will miss out on all of the benefits of being obedient to the mission of God. Lastly, we could seek where God would have us to do a lasting work and then invest our lives there for the glory of God. The gospel has the power to raise the dead in any culture and we must be willing to take the gospel wherever God would have us take it. It is for sure that our church cannot go to every country and reach every people group, so we must determine where God would have us work and seek to be obedient wherever that is.
It seems that some doors are opening in the Spanish speaking countries below us and perhaps God is beginning to reveal where we are to work. There are some options for work to be partnered with in Peru and there could be a couple of options in Mexico. The need is greater than I can express upon this paper for a biblical gospel to be proclaimed in Peru and Mexico. Oh, that God would glorify his great name in Peru and Mexico by using a small little church in a town that does not exist to proclaim his great gospel amongst a people who desperately need the truth.
I give thanks to the LORD for allowing me the privilege of going to these countries and broadening my horizons. The things that I have seen will be forever engraved upon my heart. I will long remember the pastors that I spent time with in Peru and I will never forget Adolfo who translated for me in Mexico. I will relish the time that I spent with Paul Washer and the others. When I think of church I will forever remember being on top of that mountain in Sullana at that church which had no electricity and no roof. I am convinced that heaven was looking down on that little church on top of that mountain and very few people on earth even know that it exist. Oh, God I pray that the things of this world will continue to grow dim and that God’s people will be caught up in his glorious presence.
Because of the truth: Pastor: J. Randall Easter II Timothy 2:19 "Our God is in heaven and does whatever He pleases."(Ps. 115:3) "He predestined us according to the good pleasure of His will."(Eph. 1:5) Those who have been saved have been saved for His glory and they are being made holy for this is the will of God. Are you being made holy? Spurgeon says, "If your religion does not make you holy it will damn you to hell."
Given your entirely seriousness . . .
perhaps it’s time to allow others to know that quite commonly and evidently in this case, the
PD stands for
either or both:
1. Personality Disorders in general
and/or
2. Psychopatic Disorder
Please keep in mind, the poster asserts how serious the poster is about such matters.
Perhaps the only more serious label available that one might hope to apply to an enemy would be that of ‘axe murderer.’
Nevertheless, I appreciate the complement. It’s a LOT better than being luke warm. LOL. Sigh!
This is like a smokescreen behind which the first person’s point is lost.
= = =
I think the Prottys hereon learned this tactic from the RC’s hereon.
And that's actually a key point and aspect of the diagnosis, what is colloquially called the "psychic vampire" phenomenon.
A metaphor is that the sufferer feels, shall we say, "lacking" or "invalid".
(This is not a spiritual phenomenon. One can be psychologically adequate and still realize how profound the need for Christ is.)
The things lacked are things like affirmation of existence, sense of power, sense of importance, worth, etc.
At least in an aspect I've seen here, the sufferer himself cannot "contain" himself, but also doesn't get the affirmation he needs if he does contain himself. The principle is: If you make a big enough mess, Mommy and Daddy will certainly have to clean up AND pay attention to you.
The more the sufferer can sucker anyone into an exchange which can then be drawn out by all manner of devices, the happier and more secure the sufferer of S-E feels. And the more frustrated or angry the sufferer's target gets, the more powerful the sufferer feels. " I can MAKE Mommy and Daddy pay attention to me!"
This is just a metaphor, but it works pretty well, both in terms of diagnosis and of directing response.
I'm assuming you have a through knowledge of scripture, right? It is for you and all Protestants the sole rule of faith so it would be a given that you would have already read the Scripture I would post, correct. Since you have already created a line of belief from you reading of Scripture and of the Institutes, how would me posting averse, chapter or even a whole book change you views? It would not, has not and will not until you commit to read the Holy Writ with new eyes. Not in the piecemeal pretexting fashion we are so used to here on FR but in a coherent, cogent way that brings to life the greatest love story ever written: Gods love for man.
Well, doesn't it sure sound exactly like the real idolatry that is described for us in the Bible? :
The Duck billed Platypus has a bill, webbed feet and lays eggs, but it is not a duck. If these people actually believed that the stone answered their prayers, that would be idolatry, but with out talking to them, delving deep into their understanding of intercessory prayer and the role of the saints in heaven, then it's merely a case of projection.
You are truly gracious not to judge, but your fear of iconography is a heresy we dealt with long ago and is your own problem, not the problem of properly catechized believers. I will note, however, that proper catechesis is sorely lacking in many parts of the world, the US is no exception.
The Church is two fold. There is the body of believers holding the faith as handed to us from the institutional Church founded by Christ, which is hierarchal in design and perfect in it's teaching role as it regards the faith "who hears you, hears Me". We are free to question may things, just not reveled truth, that would be a folly of pride.
Fascinating theory.
Seriously problematic application; but, nevertheless, an interesting theory.
BTW, I am truly honored to have provided so many hours of contemplation.
We were told faith is "not enough" because even the fallen angels have faith that Christ is Lord.
We responded that all the world is without excuse in recognizing Christ is Lord, but that ONLY those who have been given saving faith in Jesus Christ recognize Christ as their SAVIOUR.
Again we'll ask, what fallen angel, what demon, what Satan has faith that Christ is their Saviour?
None.
Faith is not simply a familiarity with Christ's name. Faith is knowing that Christ died to pay for one's sins in full.
No fallen angel has faith that Jesus Christ paid for their sins.
This is not a difficult concept to understand, MD, and we'll all pray for your guidance and enlightenment.
The rest of your post concerning your experience with alcoholism and personality disorders is interesting but meaningless to this conversation.
See? "The bad children MADE me do it" = "I'm not responsible for what I do."
It's the same kind of thing as thing as "I have to use this offensive language because I feel so strongly I can't hold it back."
My favorite line from Star Wars III (I think it is, I get mixed up on them Star Wars movies) - Han Solo; It's not my fault!
Ping to 427. I need a list. 8~)
BBWWAAAHHHH!!!
"Axe Murderer."
Comes right after "Alchemy" and before "Idolatry."
“I have to use this offensive language because I feel so strongly I can’t hold it back.”
= = =
i believe that honesty is much more becoming . . . and attractive . . .
I’ve been pretty clear about my language choices. The above was not one of them.
But far be it from me to hinder a Jr Shrink theory building.
LOL.
hadn’t thought of that.
It really is comforting to keep some seemingly, theoretically theologically challenged RC reps off the streets so much. LOL.
[joke group]
But perhaps I should keep my Swiss Army knife handy in case they come for me with the nets and long sleeved white coats.
Jesus created the Catholic Church. I’m not sure of what you mean by the RCC.
The eunuch was unable to discern Scripture until taught by the Church. It is extremely apparent that that condition still applies. All those outside the Church are to be considered as eunuchs, well at least they give the theological appearance of eunuchs.
I notice that you give extreme credence to Malachi Martin. Do a little research on him before you parade him as a Catholic standard, if you would?
What precedes this line “..according to his works.” Now realize that works are not a fruit, nore are they a self generated act, they are the glorification of the Lord in this world, His work, all preformed at the cleaving g our will to his and in doing so, decreasing so that He may increase with in us. Faith with out works is dead, just as works with out faith are worthless.
Some things get my attention: first the APPARENT (IOW maybe not real) inability to distinguish between "process" and "content", the repetition of the diversionary tactic, the effort to "hook" me on a "content level", and, of course, the contempt - the "dynamic" of which should need no explanation at this point.
I would say one of the signs of a pathological process is the relative hamfistedness of the reactions. These are smart people. But you couldn't tell that from their rebuffs, which remind me of prep school 10th graders in 1962-63.
Grown-ups don't do that kind of stuff, but I am told that a priest at the end of a long career of parish ministry was asked what he had learned for hearing so many confessions, and he said, "few people are happy and even fewer ever grow up."
Having been for the most part a dis-interested observer on this thread with the exception of a brief conversation with the poster, I can’t help but notice that you tend to be quite insulting at times, and then of course, indignant when someone confronts you. By theirs fruits, ye shall know them. Always a good verse to keep in mind. And if you are wondering what truly brought this comment, read below:
It really is comforting to keep some seemingly, theoretically theologically challenged RC reps off the streets so much. LOL.
Must be nice just to pass off this stuff as jokes.
***Paul didn’t have a problem telling Peter, James, and John they were wrong and stood condemned.***
So Paul is entirely right, and Peter, James, John, and Jesus are entirely wrong?
You guys are entirely funny. The misunderstanding of Paul trumps the words of Jesus.
Royal Crown Cola. I thought everybody knew that. Just like "episcopal" is an anagram for PepsiCola.
***THE CHURCH UNIVERSAL
IS FARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
from equal to the RC edifice***
The Church Universal is the Catholic Church. Quitters and splitters don’t get to make the rule.
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