Posted on 01/27/2008 7:56:14 PM PST by Manfred the Wonder Dawg
“BTW BD, Nat King Cole did not record any cd’s.”
Aaah you caught me you sly devil. All knowing and most lecherous LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*, I must confess I had a cd burned from an old 78 at a client radio station and in my haste forgot to add that info for the benefit of the cognoscenti. I will now retire to my usual time out spot with the latest edition of the new call letters of FM radio stations catalogue.
***But the biblical “fact” has to be authenticated by the a priori “knowldge” (gnosis), otherwise it’s not a biblical ‘fact’ is it? ***
Beside the fact that this statement doesn’t really say anything, unless you want to disprove the existence of a priori knowledge, I would be intrigued with your evidentiary case for the existence of God.
I must say, knowing some Orthodox folks, I’m embarrased for them because of you.
Look, I am not the one making extraodinary claims. I am simply asking for proof of claims others make as if they are facts.
If you tell me that you believe or 'know' that there are unicorns on Jupiter, then I must ask you to offer some evidence for the sake of credibility. What else am I to do—just take your word it? Don't be ridiculous.
I make no claims. I simply ask others to authenticate things they claim as facts.
I must say, knowing some Orthodox folks, I’m embarrased for them because of you
I don't really care how you feel. Just provide some evidence of your claims. Stick to the subject.
Kost50! I told you... Mum about the unicorns. No one is supposed to know. If you don’t cease to spread the word about the Jupiterian Unicorns, I’ll have to pull your secret membership :>)
Yes, STA, that is exactly what Islam teaches. This is the kind of belief that justified slavery and probably to this day, in Calvinistic subconscious, justifies slavery. After all, God must have wanted it, otherwise there would have been no slaves ever.
But, they can simply say "now God doesn't want slavery any more" and so we don't approve of it. The moody, angry, always changing God of Calvinism. And the pizza parlor bomber in Israel says "God wants me to kill these infindels..." and feel perfectly "justified" and "honored" to do so. Same mindset, opposite team.
“I must say, knowing some Orthodox folks, I’m embarrased for them because of you.”
Don’t be.
First you must prove the existence of God by your own standards before you can ask us to apply the same criteria.
Excellent article. Thank you. One sentence stuck in my quick overview (I have it saved, will read in depth later):
The sad part is that to Calvinists it's not an economic system—it's a biblical economic system! I am really surprized that we have passed child labor laws as early as they were passed, given that one can always say "God works through child labor laws to bring us to Him..."
But capitalism is based on natural law, for everyone knows that having is better than not having and having more is better than having less. This way of thinking is entirely a product of the fallen human psyche in love with the world.
You know there is a young man (23 years old) who asked a question in Afghanistan based on the information he downloaded from the Internet. Yhe question was "why is it okay fore a man to have more than one wife but not for a woman to have more than one husband?" A deadly qurestion.
For "insulting" Islam, he was sentenced to death by hanging. When I asked a question why did communist regimes have only one party, I was nearlly expelled from school in former Yugoslavia. And here on FR, for simply saying "big oil" I was called a commie. How ironic is that?
We are dealing here with the same mind, regardless of location.
Did God plan for this fellow to be blind or was he just a victim of circumstance and Jesus, just opportunistic?
Jhn 9:1 And as [Jesus] passed by, he saw a man which was blind from [his] birth.
Jhn 9:2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?
Jhn 9:3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.
Kosta: But if you think about it, either God was leading the Jews into failure, knowingly, or God allowed the Jews to fail, but out of His goodness continued to offer them chances to repent.
FK: The idea that God would continue to offer chances to those who failed, after HE failed, is solely an Apostolic one (if it is even that).
It is not "Apostolic." Allowing failure based on our choices is not God's failure.
God chose from among all the people living in OT times, just as He chose from among all people today. To some He will show mercy and to others He will not. There is no "failure" in that.
There is no Christ in it either.
Kosta: And how do we reconcile that Christ sent His disciples to minister to the twelve tribes of Israel knowing that they would fail?!
FK: Well, what would you have considered their "success"?
Well, given that it wasn't meant for the tribes of Israel to accept them, you call that success? Buy why send them there?
but I infer from all of your recent comments that if the Gospels had immediately spread like wildfire among the Jews, and been accepted, then the Gentiles would have been locked out forever
There is nothing in the NT that says Christ came because of the Gentiles.
"I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."[Mat 15:24]
Yeah, only. How much clearer can that be? Did the OT say anywhere that the messiah was going to come to save the Gentiles? Or to teach them (the OT) God's justice?
However, since God ALWAYS intended to reach the Gentiles en mass, then what you call the failure of the Jews I would call the success of God
And that's based on what? So, next time you see a homeless person why don't you congratulate him?
Like I said to Forest Keeper, next time you see a homeless man, don't give him money—congratulate him! And tell him: "Man, aren't you lucky!" If only I were so "blessed."
Jhn 9:3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him
I think Christ was referirng to the His ability to give him sight, not that he was lbind all his life just so Christ can come by and show His power. God din't make him blind just for that! Blindness like all desease is not from God but from our fallen nature.
And what about the rets of the verse?
4 "We must work the works of Him who sent Me as long as it is day; night is coming when no one can work.
Huh? One cannot work at night? Not even God?
Okay, I will use cereal mixers from now on. :)
They found a guy drowned in a bowl of Cheerios. They think it is a cereal killer.
It was the cereal mixer on drugs. And, those were really "baby donughts"...but don't tell anyone.
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: - John 10:27
And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. – John 6:65
Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: - Luke 24:25
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. - Matt 5:18
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life. - John 6:63
Where [is] the wise? where [is] the scribe? where [is] the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men. - I Cor 1:18-25
To God be the glory!
Well, on one level we do have the concept of a reward judgment that we disagree about. We think some verses talk about that, but that's a separate discussion. On your quote from Matthew, I don't think any of us would say that deeds are not important. We just don't think they are a separate and independent component of salvation. In every case a changed heart results in true faith which saves. Also in every case true faith will result in deeds pleasing to God. They are all part of one thing that God has given us, so God gets all the credit. Therefore, we don't see it as a cooperation since it is all of God.
So, for the Matthew passage we see this perfectly played out. The sheep on the right hand were those with true faith given by God. Jesus says: "‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father. Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world." They were blessed, implying that the goats were not so blessed. And, we note that the Kingdom was NOT prepared for whoever "made it". No, it was specifically prepared ONLY for those God so blessed.
Those so blessed were the only ones capable of feeding and giving drink and welcoming and clothing and caring for and visiting. And ALL of them DID because God promises that not one will be lost whom the Father gave to Christ before the foundations:
John 10:27-29 : 27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand.
Conversely, the goats did not do deeds pleasing to God because they never had true faith. God passed them over, and so they were not saved.
Well, I believe I understand what you're trying to say. However the term "impeccable" means "flawless", "irreproachable", "perfect". Based on these synonyms, I would have to say scriptures is impeccable.
What is not impeccable is our capability to understand the scriptures. The scriptures were given to us with one purpose in mind, so that we may believe in the Lord Jesus. That being said, it is a very focused book that excludes other things about God that will be revealed when we are glorified. Some of the mysteries that exists are mysteries that simply touch these other areas. But I would say there are really few mysteries in the scriptures.
Some feel that a word here has been changed or a phrased has been added. I think these are silly arguments made by those who would like to cast doubt on God's word. God is the revealer of His word and for those who truly seek, they will truly find if God so grants His grace.
“If only I were so “blessed.”
Circumstances do not determine “blessedness”.
Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are the meek: for they shall posses the land. Blessed are they who mourn: for they shall be comforted.
Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after justice: for they shall have their fill.
Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
Blessed are the clean of heart: for they shall see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
Blessed are they that suffer persecution for justice’ sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
That being said what about this? Did God purpose to send Israel and Joseph into slavery?
Gen. 15:13-16, “And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years; And also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance. And thou shalt go to thy fathers in peace; thou shalt be buried in a good old age. But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full.”
Gen. 45:5-8, “Now therefore be not grieved, nor angry with yourselves, that ye sold me hither: for God did send me before you to preserve life. For these two years hath the famine been in the land: and yet there are five years, in the which there shall neither be earing nor harvest. And God sent me before you to preserve you a posterity in the earth, and to save your lives by a great deliverance. So now it was not you that sent me hither, but God: and he hath made me a father to Pharaoh, and lord of all his house, and a ruler throughout all the land of Egypt.”
Gen. 50:20, “But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive.”
He must have quoted that right out of "Das Kapital". And how much of his time and energy did he invest in this statement, and what was his "maximum individual economic profit" from his investment???
I digress for a moment to relate a humorous capitalist moment of the 16th century:
During the days that Tyndales Bibles were being bought and sold [note how capitalism contributed to the distribution of the scriptures], the Bishop of London wanted to take them all out of circulation. Contacting a certain merchant named Pakington, the Bishop offered to buy up every available Tyndale Bible so that he could burn them all at the stake.
The merchant contacted Tyndale who was more than happy to oblige since he needed the money to pay off his debts and invest in a new and improved version. Tyndale, a good capitalist, a man of his word, got the money and paid off his debts, with enough left over to produce a new improved version. The merchant Pakington got his profit. And the Bishop of London got his Tyndale bibles and his holy bonfire. Everyone was happy -- capitalism had worked as it always does with honorable people.
Then years later when one of Tyndale's associates was being tied to the stake, he was offered mercy if he would tell the stakemasters who it was that provided the money for Tyndale and his Bibles. He blurted out: "It was the Bishop of London. He helped us get out of debt and gave us the money for new bibles".
Needless to say they burned him at the stake anyway. They got what they asked for, but he didn't get the mercy. So much for their offer of mercy. And the stakemasters have hated Capitalism ever since -- actually long before that.
Just thought you would enjoy this. There is no charge. It's free -- even though I, a good capitalist, had to invest my time and effort in something for which I will not receive "maximum individual economic profit". You're welcome.
I have no clue what you are seeing or hearing. You are not proving anything by repeating the same verses. People could see pink elephants and think they are angels...
Evidently though you have rejected those signs and demand others
Experience is not a sign. It's a symptom. Pain is a symptom; bleeding is a sign. I have not rejected an signs. And I do not deman anything that's not in the bible:
Now, do you have any of these signs or is St. Mark a liar?
You proved nothing so far.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.