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Conclusion from Peru and Mexico
email from Randall Easter | 25 January 2008 | Randall Easter

Posted on 01/27/2008 7:56:14 PM PST by Manfred the Wonder Dawg

January 25, 2008

ESV Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

In recent days I have spent time in Lima and Sullana Peru and Mexico City and I have discovered that people by nature are the same. Man has a heart that is inclined to selfishness and idolatry. Sin abounds in the remotest parts of the land because the heart is desperately wicked. Thousands bow before statues of Mary and pray to her hoping for answers. I have seen these people stare hopelessly at Mary icons, Jesus icons, and a host of dead saints who will do nothing for them. I have talked with people who pray to the pope and say that they love him. I talked with one lady who said that she knew that Jesus was the Savior, but she loved the pope. Thousands bow before Santa Muerte (holy death angel) in hopes that she will do whatever they ask her. I have seen people bring money, burning cigarettes, beer, whiskey, chocolate, plants, and flowers to Santa Muerte in hopes of her answers. I have seen these people bowing on their knees on the concrete in the middle of public places to worship their idol. Millions of people come into the Basilica in Mexico City and pay their money, confess their sins, and stare hopelessly at relics in hope that their sins will be pardoned. In America countless thousands are chained to baseball games, football games, material possessions, and whatever else their heart of idols can produce to worship.

My heart has broken in these last weeks because the God of heaven is not honored as he ought to be honored. People worship the things that are created rather than worshiping the Creator. God has been gracious to all mankind and yet mankind has hardened their hearts against a loving God. God brings the rain on the just and unjust. God brings the beautiful sunrises and sunsets upon the just and unjust. God gives good gifts unto all and above all things he has given his Son that those who would believe in him would be saved. However, man has taken the good things of God and perverted them unto idols and turned their attention away from God. I get a feel for Jesus as he overlooked Jerusalem or Paul as he beseeched for God to save Israel. When you accept the reality of the truth of the glory of God is breaks your heart that people would turn away from the great and awesome God of heaven to serve lesser things. Moses was outraged by the golden calf, the prophets passionately preached against idolatry, Jesus was angered that the temple was changed in an idolatrous business, and Paul preached to the idolaters of Mars Hill by telling them of the unknown God.

I arrived back at home wondering how I should respond to all the idolatry that I have beheld in these last three weeks. I wondered how our church here in the states should respond to all of the idolatry in the world. What are the options? First, I suppose we could sit around and hope that people chose to get their life together and stop being idolaters. However, I do not know how that could ever happen apart from them hearing the truth. Second, I suppose we could spend a lifetime studying cultural issues and customs in hope that we could somehow learn to relate to the people of other countries. However, the bible is quite clear that all men are the same. Men are dead in sin, shaped in iniquity, and by nature are the enemies of God. Thirdly, we could pay other people or other agencies to go and do a work for us while we remain comfortably in the states. However, there is no way to insure that there will be doctrinal accuracy or integrity. If we only pay other people to take the gospel we will miss out on all of the benefits of being obedient to the mission of God. Lastly, we could seek where God would have us to do a lasting work and then invest our lives there for the glory of God. The gospel has the power to raise the dead in any culture and we must be willing to take the gospel wherever God would have us take it. It is for sure that our church cannot go to every country and reach every people group, so we must determine where God would have us work and seek to be obedient wherever that is.

It seems that some doors are opening in the Spanish speaking countries below us and perhaps God is beginning to reveal where we are to work. There are some options for work to be partnered with in Peru and there could be a couple of options in Mexico. The need is greater than I can express upon this paper for a biblical gospel to be proclaimed in Peru and Mexico. Oh, that God would glorify his great name in Peru and Mexico by using a small little church in a town that does not exist to proclaim his great gospel amongst a people who desperately need the truth.

I give thanks to the LORD for allowing me the privilege of going to these countries and broadening my horizons. The things that I have seen will be forever engraved upon my heart. I will long remember the pastors that I spent time with in Peru and I will never forget Adolfo who translated for me in Mexico. I will relish the time that I spent with Paul Washer and the others. When I think of church I will forever remember being on top of that mountain in Sullana at that church which had no electricity and no roof. I am convinced that heaven was looking down on that little church on top of that mountain and very few people on earth even know that it exist. Oh, God I pray that the things of this world will continue to grow dim and that God’s people will be caught up in his glorious presence.

Because of the truth: Pastor: J. Randall Easter II Timothy 2:19 "Our God is in heaven and does whatever He pleases."(Ps. 115:3) "He predestined us according to the good pleasure of His will."(Eph. 1:5) Those who have been saved have been saved for His glory and they are being made holy for this is the will of God. Are you being made holy? Spurgeon says, "If your religion does not make you holy it will damn you to hell."


TOPICS: Apologetics; Ministry/Outreach; Religion & Culture; Theology
KEYWORDS: evangelism; mexico; peru; reformed; truth
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To: MarkBsnr

Well, the good spirit-filled christian protestants that I know bear MUCH fruit for the Kingdom. Quit painting us with such a broad,biased brush. You really don’t know what other churches across the country are doing to promote the Kingdom of God and to reach out into our communities to help others.


1,581 posted on 02/07/2008 8:31:33 PM PST by Marysecretary (GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL.)
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To: wmfights; Kolokotronis

Discuss or criticize foreign policy as you wish - just don’t leave any doors open for the anti-war isolationists to come through.


1,582 posted on 02/07/2008 8:48:47 PM PST by Religion Moderator
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To: kosta50

I’ll trust your knowledge on Origen, but I generally viewed Origen as well meaning who gradually slipped into Heresy by accident. What would your view be? Early Origen is good, but by the end, he had laid the groundwork for Arius.


1,583 posted on 02/07/2008 8:55:41 PM PST by StAthanasiustheGreat (Vocatus Atque Non Vocatus Deus Aderit)
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To: StAthanasiustheGreat
Early Origen is good, but by the end, he had laid the groundwork for Arius

His early years were orthodox and he was a brilliant theologian. His later work aquired Gnostic character for which he was eventually condemned (posthumously).

1,584 posted on 02/07/2008 9:11:03 PM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: blue-duncan; Marysecretary; wmfights; Dr. Eckleburg
Daniel 7:13 it is used as a title for a divine person “The Son of man”.

How do you know that? Hebrew did not distinguish between lower case and upper case letters. In fact the NIV doesn't capitalize "son of man"

and neither does the Jewish Tanakh

but it does capitalize "Him" meaning God as is obvious from the next verse in which He (God) gives him (son of man) dominion of eternal kingdom (the world to come under human messiah, as Judaism believes).

The OT speaks of nations knowing the justice (punishment, fear in OT terms) of the God of Abraham threough this son of man, and Daniel 14 speaks of the him (lower case h) receiving

It is eternal but not heavenly. Son of man never meant God in Judaism And Son of God never meant God in Judaism either.

he affirmed it by saying “you say that I am” and they understood that to mean he was affirming the title to himself

That's what the Gospels say but in reality that's no affirmation.

just as he did when Pilate asked him if he was “King of the Jews”, an eschatological title of looked for kingdom

Escathological in terms of delivering Israel from the hands of the Romans to the hands of the the Jewish King-Savior, not to a divine Person.

The messianic King of the Jews is a man, not God. His mission is to restore the Kingdom of Israel and establish world dominion. Notice, in Daniel it doesn't say the whole world will "worship" him (as a God) but serve him (as their Lord).

1,585 posted on 02/07/2008 9:38:06 PM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: StAthanasiustheGreat
Seems like you are unusually busy in this thread. Normally the Greeks are able to stay above the fray and its us Latins who get in it.

The Orthodox usually follow Patriarch Jeremiah II's lead (derive from the New Testament): engage heretics three time and then leave them.

It's an admiorable quality, like being able to walk away form a slot machine while you are ahead. I have yet to leanr to tame my curiosity.

Someday, and I pray soon, we will be One Visible body again

Thank you. God willing.

1,586 posted on 02/07/2008 9:42:31 PM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50

It will always be a dark stain that not enough of us (just the Genoese) were with you at the Walls of Theodosius on that dark day in 1453. Someday, Hagia Sophia will reclaim her place as one of the pillar churches of Christendom, it just may have to wait till the Heavenly Jerusalem.


1,587 posted on 02/07/2008 9:45:29 PM PST by StAthanasiustheGreat (Vocatus Atque Non Vocatus Deus Aderit)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
Thank you oh so very much for all of your insights and those beautiful Scriptures!

Here's one more to underscore the root of God, the true vine, Jesus Christ:

Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?

For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, [there is] no beauty that we should desire him. He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were [our] faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. But he [was] wounded for our transgressions, [he was] bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace [was] upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. - Isaiah 53:1-6

To God be the glory!

1,588 posted on 02/07/2008 9:46:22 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: MarkBsnr; Forest Keeper
Mark to FK: Planning? God is out of time and space. A plan is designed over time through space.

You picked up on this oxymoron too! He sdoesn't have to plan as he should know what we will do and how we weill end base don our choices. Otherwise He would be a micormanaging soccer mom.

FK: God does not have “afterthoughts”. He is omnipotent and omniscient.

Gen 6:6 seems to suggest otherwise.

1,589 posted on 02/07/2008 9:52:09 PM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: Quix
Thank you so much for your encouragements, dear brother in Christ! The only tagline I could pluck from it would be "Man is not the measure of God."
1,590 posted on 02/07/2008 9:53:13 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: MarkBsnr
It is a self serving ideology, as opposed to the others-serving message of Jesus.

Great summary, The former is all about me-myself-and-I. I know. I am certain. I am saved. I am dead to sin. etc.

1,591 posted on 02/07/2008 9:54:03 PM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
Knowledge of grace does not bring grace. Grace brings knowledge of everything.

Indeed. Thank you so very much for sharing your insights!

1,592 posted on 02/07/2008 9:55:06 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alex Murphy
It would be an interesting discussion. Thank you for your reply!
1,593 posted on 02/07/2008 9:57:23 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: Forest Keeper; MarkBsnr; HarleyD; Dr. Eckleburg; blue-duncan; wmfights
The God of the Holy Bible is not a God who scrambles to pick up the pieces when something He tries doesn't work out

The Bible seems to suggest otherwise, FK. God repented having made man in Genesis 6:6 and in Hebrew 8:6 the scipture palinly reveal that the new covenant is better than the mperfect Old One. The imperfection being impicit in calling the new one better.

But if you think about it, either God was leading the Jews into failure, knowingly, or God allowed the Jews to fail, but out of His goodness continued to offer them chances to repent. We see the same in Christ's sacrifice: His atonment is sufficient to make it possible for every man to be saved. But just as the OT God does not force the Jews, neither does Christ fore anyone; in both cases God offers us repentance. That is consistent throughout both Testaments.

And how do we reconcile that Christ sent His disciples to minister to the twelve tribes of Israel knowing that they would fail?!

1,594 posted on 02/07/2008 10:09:15 PM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: StAthanasiustheGreat; Kolokotronis
It will always be a dark stain that not enough of us (just the Genoese) were with you at the Walls of Theodosius on that dark day in 1453

And Kolo's ancestor died on those walls fighting off the Mohammedans 555 years ago! A missed opporunity to help Christendom with disastrous consequences. That's what happens when we put human divisions over God. Hopefully we will never repeat the same mistake and come to each other's aid, setting aside those issues that divide us and concetrating on those that bring us closer. It's much better that way. :)

Someday, Hagia Sophia will reclaim her place as one of the pillar churches of Christendom, it just may have to wait till the Heavenly Jerusalem

We Orthodox have a saying: in due time. It's all on God's clock. :) He knows what time it is.

1,595 posted on 02/07/2008 10:17:34 PM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
Amen.

The entrance of thy words giveth light, it giveth understanding unto the simple (Ps.119:130)

1,596 posted on 02/07/2008 10:47:15 PM PST by fortheDeclaration ("Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people".-John Adams)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
How does one "see" an original transcript without "handling" an original transcript?

More to the point, how does one see what no longer exists.

1,597 posted on 02/07/2008 10:52:35 PM PST by fortheDeclaration ("Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people".-John Adams)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

B. The Alexandrian Text-type

This is a very small group of manuscripts. Peculiarities of spelling show that they are to be associated with Alexandria in Egypt; and, not surprisingly, readings from this type of text are to be found among the early Egyptian papyri (e.g., P46, P47). Its chief representatives, however, are Codex Sinaiticus (or Codex Aleph) and Codex Vaticanus (or Codex B).
Support for this text-type comes from the Alexandrian Fathers, most notably from Origen (AD 185-254) and Cyril (376-444).

Several things should be observed here:

1. This text-type originated from Alexandria, in Egypt. Scripture gives no indication that there was ever an apostolic presence in those parts, but church history reveals that many notorious heretics lived and taught there including such Gnostics as Basilides, Isidore, and Valentinus. Anything proceeding from this place must be regarded with some suspicion.

2. There is clear evidence of revision by its rearrangement of words. B.H. Streeter suggested that the editor was an Egyptian bishop called Hesychius.23 This means that although great claims are made for it, this text-type cannot be regarded as singularly “pure”.

3. The two great representatives of this text-type, Codices Aleph (Sinaiticus) and B (Vaticanus) are exceedingly poor in quality. When examined by Dr. F.H.A. Scrivener, Codex Aleph was declared to be “roughly written” and “full of gross transcriptural blunders” such as “leaving out whole lines of the original”. Codex B, although “less faulty”, was found to be “liable to err” committing “errors of the most palpable character”.24

4. These principal manuscripts show their corruptions by disagreeing with themselves in literally thousands of places (3,000 times in the Gospels alone).

http://www.trinitarianbiblesociety.org/


1,598 posted on 02/07/2008 11:12:42 PM PST by fortheDeclaration ("Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people".-John Adams)
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To: Uncle Chip; Dr. Eckleburg

Revelation 22:19

While the focus of this verse deals with the phrase “book of life,” as opposed to “tree of life,” the issue is deeper. The manuscript Codex 1r used by Desiderius Erasmus in the production of his Greek New Testament is missing the last six verses of Revelation chapter twenty-two. It is thought that Erasmus took the Latin Vulgate and retranslated these verses back into Greek. [Erika Rummel, Erasmus’ Annotations on the New Testament: From Philologist to Theologian (Toronto: University of Toronto Press, 1986), 93. It is claimed that Erasmus openly declares in the Annotations of his 1516 edition (page 675) that he “ex nostris Latinis supplevimus Graeca” (supplied the Greek from the Latin). Thus the claim that the last six verses of Revelation chapter twenty-two were retranslated from the Vulgate into Greek. However, the reprint of the 1516 edition of Erasmus does not contain this phrase on page 675 of his Annotations, which is the conclusion of his notes on the book of Revelation, nor is such a phrase found elsewhere in that edition.] Assuming this hypothesis is true we must ask ourselves the following questions. First, if Erasmus did make use of the Latin Vulgate to supply these last six verses, has the usage of the Latin corrupted the text? Second, was Codex 1r really the only Greek manuscript used by Erasmus for this passage?

Certainly the Latin Vulgate and the Greek Textus Receptus are similar in these last six verses. This, of course, would be natural if the Latin was based on early Greek manuscripts that correspond with the Textus Receptus. We must remember that most of the Greek manuscripts of the second, third, and fourth centuries have not survived the passage of time. However, the Vulgate and the Textus Receptus are not identical either. For example, the conclusion of Revelation 22:20 reads in the Receptus, Amen. Nai, erchou, kurie Iesou (Amen. Even so, come Lord Jesus). The Latin reads, amen veni Domine Iesu (Amen come Lord Jesus). The Textus Receptus includes an additional affirmation nai (even so), an addition not found in either the Greek Critical Text or the Latin Vulgate.

If Erasmus did translate back into Greek from the Latin text, he did an astounding job. These six verses consist of one hundred thirty-six Greek words in the Textus Receptus, and one hundred thirty-two Greek words in the Critical Text. There are only eighteen textual variants found within these verses when the two texts are compared. Such textual variants, both in number and nature, are common throughout the New Testament between these two Greek texts. For example, the preceding six verses, Revelation 22:10-15, have fourteen textual variants which are of the same nature, and in Revelation 21:3-8 we find no fewer than twenty textual variants. One would expect, therefore, a greater number of textual variants if Erasmus was translating from the Latin back into Greek, and yet the two texts are extremely close. Even if he did translate from the Latin into Greek it would have no bearing on the doctrine of biblical preservation. Preservation simply demands that God has kept and preserved the words throughout the generations from the time of their inception until this present day and even beyond. It does not demand that these words be preserved in the original languages only.

However, this brings us to our second question. Did Erasmus really translate the Latin back into Greek? Textual scholar Herman C. Hoskier argued that Erasmus did not do this. Instead, he suggests that Erasmus used other Greek manuscripts such as 2049 (which Hoskier calls 141), and the evidence seems to support this position. [H. C. Hoskier, Concerning the Text of the Apocalypse, vol. 2 (London: Bernard Quaritch, Ltd., 1929), 644.] Manuscript 2049 contains the reading found in the Textus Receptus including the textual variant of Revelation 22:19. To this we can also add the Greek manuscript evidence of 296, and the margin of 2067.

Additionally, the Greek text copied by Erasmus in Revelation 22:16-21 reflects a consistency that is found elsewhere in the Textus Receptus, suggesting that it was copied from other Greek manuscripts and not translated from the Latin back into Greek. In Revelation 22:16 we find the phrase tou dabid (the David) in the Textus Receptus as opposed to the Critical Text’s dauid (David). While the English would translate the two identically, it is interesting to note that in Revelation 3:7 we find the same thing. In that passage the Textus Receptus places the definite article before the name of David just as it does in Revelation 22:16, while the Critical Text does not use the definite article before David’s name in either passage.

To counter this, it has been noted that within the text of Erasmus at Revelation 22:16-21 there are a few unusual spellings; for example, elthe (come) instead of the normal erchou (come). This suggests that Erasmus was copying from a Greek manuscript and not translating from the Latin. Erasmus, it should be remembered, was one of the greatest scholars and thinkers of his day. He was fluent in Greek and several other languages. He would have known that the normal New Testament word for come is not elthe but is instead erchou. In fact, Erasmus used erchou in Revelation 22:7; 22:12; and even in 22:20. There must have been a reason for Erasmus to depart from the normal form of the word and write elthe in 22:17. Moreover, the Latin for come in 22:17 is the same Latin word in 22:20, veni. This further suggests that Erasmus was not really translating from the Latin, but was using an additional Greek manuscript other than Codex 1r.

Likewise, there is textual evidence for the reading book of life instead of tree of life. As noted above, the reading is found in a few Greek manuscripts. It is the main reading among the Latin witnesses. The phrase book of life is also the reading of the Old Bohairic version. Finally, it is the reading found in the writings of Ambrose (397 AD), Bachiarius (late fourth century), Primasius (552 AD) and Haymo (ninth century).

One must also consider the internal evidence. The phrase tree of life appears seven times in the Old Testament and three times in the New Testament. In these verses we are told we will be able to eat of this tree, and that this tree of Eden will reappear in Eternity. The idea that one can have their share taken away from the tree of life seems abnormal to Scripture. However, the phrase book of life appears seven other times in the New Testament (Philippians 4:3; Revelation 3:5; 13:8; 17:8; 20:12, 15; and 21:27). In each case we find the book of life either contains or does not contain names, or names are blotted out of it. Therefore, the phrase, “And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life,” is extremely consistent with the biblical texts.

As can be seen from this text, the warning is ominous. While one may understand this passage to apply only to the book of Revelation, it is clear from other passages that the same is true of the whole of Scripture (Deuteronomy 4:2; Proverbs 30:6). When applied to the verses discussed in this chapter we must conclude that somewhere in the process of transmission someone either added to the text or omitted from it. There’s the rub, and it should be taken seriously. Scholarship is a noble and honorable profession. However, it ceases to be both if it seeks to usurp the authority of the Lord God. After all, our commitment does not so much rest with our scholarship as it does with the ultimate Scholar.

http://members.aol.com/DrTHolland/Chapter8.html


1,599 posted on 02/07/2008 11:45:40 PM PST by fortheDeclaration ("Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people".-John Adams)
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To: Alamo-Girl

Ahhhh . . . a good one . . .

Though I had in my mind’s eye a condensed paragraph’s worth that was at the end of posts but still in the msg part but below a name signature like an email templet standard signature. Not saying you “should” just what was in my mind’s eye on finishing reading that fine post.

Though I suppose IF YOU WANTED to, you must have a standard file with the type font in it . . . I suppose something could be part of that file.

Just pontificating off the top of my head.

LUB


1,600 posted on 02/08/2008 12:58:56 AM PST by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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