Posted on 01/27/2008 7:56:14 PM PST by Manfred the Wonder Dawg
January 25, 2008
ESV Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
In recent days I have spent time in Lima and Sullana Peru and Mexico City and I have discovered that people by nature are the same. Man has a heart that is inclined to selfishness and idolatry. Sin abounds in the remotest parts of the land because the heart is desperately wicked. Thousands bow before statues of Mary and pray to her hoping for answers. I have seen these people stare hopelessly at Mary icons, Jesus icons, and a host of dead saints who will do nothing for them. I have talked with people who pray to the pope and say that they love him. I talked with one lady who said that she knew that Jesus was the Savior, but she loved the pope. Thousands bow before Santa Muerte (holy death angel) in hopes that she will do whatever they ask her. I have seen people bring money, burning cigarettes, beer, whiskey, chocolate, plants, and flowers to Santa Muerte in hopes of her answers. I have seen these people bowing on their knees on the concrete in the middle of public places to worship their idol. Millions of people come into the Basilica in Mexico City and pay their money, confess their sins, and stare hopelessly at relics in hope that their sins will be pardoned. In America countless thousands are chained to baseball games, football games, material possessions, and whatever else their heart of idols can produce to worship.
My heart has broken in these last weeks because the God of heaven is not honored as he ought to be honored. People worship the things that are created rather than worshiping the Creator. God has been gracious to all mankind and yet mankind has hardened their hearts against a loving God. God brings the rain on the just and unjust. God brings the beautiful sunrises and sunsets upon the just and unjust. God gives good gifts unto all and above all things he has given his Son that those who would believe in him would be saved. However, man has taken the good things of God and perverted them unto idols and turned their attention away from God. I get a feel for Jesus as he overlooked Jerusalem or Paul as he beseeched for God to save Israel. When you accept the reality of the truth of the glory of God is breaks your heart that people would turn away from the great and awesome God of heaven to serve lesser things. Moses was outraged by the golden calf, the prophets passionately preached against idolatry, Jesus was angered that the temple was changed in an idolatrous business, and Paul preached to the idolaters of Mars Hill by telling them of the unknown God.
I arrived back at home wondering how I should respond to all the idolatry that I have beheld in these last three weeks. I wondered how our church here in the states should respond to all of the idolatry in the world. What are the options? First, I suppose we could sit around and hope that people chose to get their life together and stop being idolaters. However, I do not know how that could ever happen apart from them hearing the truth. Second, I suppose we could spend a lifetime studying cultural issues and customs in hope that we could somehow learn to relate to the people of other countries. However, the bible is quite clear that all men are the same. Men are dead in sin, shaped in iniquity, and by nature are the enemies of God. Thirdly, we could pay other people or other agencies to go and do a work for us while we remain comfortably in the states. However, there is no way to insure that there will be doctrinal accuracy or integrity. If we only pay other people to take the gospel we will miss out on all of the benefits of being obedient to the mission of God. Lastly, we could seek where God would have us to do a lasting work and then invest our lives there for the glory of God. The gospel has the power to raise the dead in any culture and we must be willing to take the gospel wherever God would have us take it. It is for sure that our church cannot go to every country and reach every people group, so we must determine where God would have us work and seek to be obedient wherever that is.
It seems that some doors are opening in the Spanish speaking countries below us and perhaps God is beginning to reveal where we are to work. There are some options for work to be partnered with in Peru and there could be a couple of options in Mexico. The need is greater than I can express upon this paper for a biblical gospel to be proclaimed in Peru and Mexico. Oh, that God would glorify his great name in Peru and Mexico by using a small little church in a town that does not exist to proclaim his great gospel amongst a people who desperately need the truth.
I give thanks to the LORD for allowing me the privilege of going to these countries and broadening my horizons. The things that I have seen will be forever engraved upon my heart. I will long remember the pastors that I spent time with in Peru and I will never forget Adolfo who translated for me in Mexico. I will relish the time that I spent with Paul Washer and the others. When I think of church I will forever remember being on top of that mountain in Sullana at that church which had no electricity and no roof. I am convinced that heaven was looking down on that little church on top of that mountain and very few people on earth even know that it exist. Oh, God I pray that the things of this world will continue to grow dim and that God’s people will be caught up in his glorious presence.
Because of the truth: Pastor: J. Randall Easter II Timothy 2:19 "Our God is in heaven and does whatever He pleases."(Ps. 115:3) "He predestined us according to the good pleasure of His will."(Eph. 1:5) Those who have been saved have been saved for His glory and they are being made holy for this is the will of God. Are you being made holy? Spurgeon says, "If your religion does not make you holy it will damn you to hell."
The Lord uses your patience and understanding as a growthful encouragement to my spiritual trek. Much appreciated that you are an endearing, enduring part of FR and the Rel forum.
Thank you for all your encouragements, dear Quix!
The Christian world has appreciated the "lousy" job that they did for the last 400 years than the job that the Greeks didn't do at all ---
What a crock! What went into Textus Receptus were two 12th century unreliable Byzantine text-type copies of clopies of copies, only an idiot can consider that reliable.
He lived by that ancient code: "Beware of Greeks bearing gifts"????
He received a lot of manuscripts from the Greeks but chose only the two most reliable and representative.
besides, Erasmus used the unreliable Vulgate for those parts of the Bible he couldn't find in Greek.
Oh no -- don't tell us that the Greeks actually left words out of their own manuscrripts. God Forbid. Thank God that the Latin retained them.
And in one instance he even retro-translated a whole section from Vuglate Latin into his (lousy) Greek and passed it on as the "ancient" Received Text!
And since he knew Greek and Latin so well, he probably fixed the text for you guys --
Why would Greeks make translations for others?
Why indeed??? They may know Greek, but they sure don't know English. So why are you complaining about an English translation????
The Greek Orthodox Church uses Codex Alexandrinus, which is the same text trecived by Erasmus and which is a lot more corrupt than the older 4th century Codices Vaticanus and Sinaitcus, the least "polished" and altered and the oldest, of all other manuscripts. In fact the Received Text are copies of the 12th century copies of the highly "harmonzied" and choregraphed end of 5th century C. Alexandrinus, which has been throughly "Christianized."
Codex Alexandrinus is a hybrid -- Siniaticus/Vaticanus B [Origen's Hexapla] for the OT, Sinaiticus/Vaticanus B for the Epistles and Acts, but the same as Erasmus' Received Greek Text in the Gospels. And even with that you are not happy!!!!
YES. I know. Praise Him for that vis a vis all of us.
One of the arguments I keep seeing is that 95% of world was illiterate through the dark ages. Are you now saying that wasn't the case?
Yeah right, Uncle Chip, you American/Western Protestants have a lot to be proud of.
Shame on you.
Those terrible Protestants have brought freedom to the world. There is no other nation in the history of man that has been as exceptional as America. We are the first nation to declare in our founding documents that our rights are given by God, that all men are created equal. We have sacrificed our greatest treasure, our sons and daughters, to protect the right of people to speak freely. We have sacrificed our treasure to free people from tyranny. After winning wars we do not enslave, or take the natural resources of those we have defeated. We help those we have vanquished rebuild and try to help them establish more representative forms of govt. and then we try to do trade with them .
I'm sorry you don't see the long term goal of the WOT. We are not only attempting to destroy the terrorists, but we are trying to transform the muslim culture and bring them out of the 7th century into the modern world. We are trying to establish representative govt. where none has existed before. We are trying to create market place economies supported by a judicial system that respects property rights and recognizes individual God give rights. Whether we can succeed, or are meant, to is another question.
If we can't civilize the muslim horde what's the alternative. Europe's birth rates are collapsing. Muslims are reproducing at dramatically higher rates. Russia is a basket case. We either civilize them, or pull back to our shores and abandon your friends and neighbors over there.
It is those Protestants you demean that are fighting the fight. All I see from the RC's and EO is accommodation with the enemy.
Although that's just the beginning. The magical initiation ceremony has to take place...which strangely must recur ad infinitum in order for the membership to stick.
And members must keep paying their dues moment by moment because the head of the organization hasn't paid for them.
No free rides of mercy in this group.
I am told that the Greek Orthodox Church uses Codex Alexandrinus. Well Codex Alexandrinus is Byzantine in the Gospels only, but Alexandrian [Sinaiticus/Vaticanus B] in the Epistles and elsewhere. So somebody is fooling somebody. Here is what Kosta posted:
"The Greek Orthodox Church uses Codex Alexandrinus, which is the same text trecived by Erasmus and which is a lot more corrupt than the older 4th century Codices Vaticanus and Sinaitcus, the least "polished" and altered and the oldest, of all other manuscripts. In fact the Received Text are copies of the 12th century copies of the highly "harmonzied" and choregraphed end of 5th century C. Alexandrinus, which has been throughly "Christianized".
When did the change take place??? Are those lectionaries of the Epistles other than the Gospels that you are reading from in the church Byzantine or Alexandrian???
True, true!
Yup.
***Jews were always looking for a sign/miracles. Even when He performed them, they didn’t believe He was their Messiah (the Messiah was supposed to perform miracles). They attributed some of it to the devil. Jesus couldn’t win with them no matter what (LOL)!***
Excellent point.
Acts 7:4 --- Read it and weep!!!!
Obviously some people with religiously correct agendas have your "Chaldaios" and your "Hebraikos" backwards!!!
***I haven’t seen any Gnosticism on this thread as I understand the term. Reformers do not claim anything that is “secret”.***
The Reformed claim an indwelling knowledge that others do not have.
***But, thank you for your exhortation. I’m sure Daddy will be checking His records to see where He went wrong in His assessments. Perhaps He’ll ring you up for a refresher course in proper judgment about such things.***
You’re welcome.
Folks amaze me when they proclaim and assure me that it is God’s words, that God will do this, that God will like that, and actually give His mindset.
God will Judge me as He will. I am His Creature. He is not mine.
I understand that many folks here cherry pick verse from the Bible and that it has a tendency to extend into other areas.
***The funny thing is that every criticism of Catholics is met with, “they don’t know Catholicism”.***
The ‘secrets’ of Catholicism are contained in Scripture, the Catechism and the various other publications that are and continue to be publically available.
Since the advent of the Internet, all the secrets of Catholicism are available from the comfort of your own computer chair.
Well Said — Thank You.
“One of the arguments I keep seeing is that 95% of world was illiterate through the dark ages. Are you now saying that wasn’t the case?”
That would be in the West, WF, not in the East.
“All I see from the RC’s and EO is accommodation with the enemy.”
Really?! Are the EO and the RCs picking up the tab for the destruction of Reformed Protestantism by crazed Mohammedans? No? Why is the American government picking up the tab for the destruction of Eastern Christian cultures and people? Why is the American government paying for Fatah and both the Sunni and Shia movements in Lebanon and the Turkish hell of No. Cyprus, ethnically cleansed of Christians? Does that make you proud WF? Are you satisfied that the non Protestant heretics are getting what they deserve and are you happy your money is paying for it?
And WF, do you really think that we went into Iraq to bring the blessings of liberty and democracy to that benighted land or did we go in to whack a guy we thought posed a threat to us and make an example of him and when the Bush government didn’t have the guts to finish the job, they came up with the democracy/liberty routine?
Does American exceptionalism excuse the groveling of Bush before the Saudi king and other Sunni leaders? Does it excuse, no, explain, American complicity in the destruction of non Protestant Christian communities? How does any American excuse the monstrosities of Kosovo and Lebanon and No. Cyprus and the destruction of 2000 year old Christianity in Iraq? Short of saying that those Christian communities were not products of the Protestant Revolution and thus heretics, no American can!
“When did the change take place??? Are those lectionaries of the Epistles other than the Gospels that you are reading from in the church Byzantine or Alexandrian???”
They are what we have always used. There has been no change. You do not understand the terminology Kosta and I are using...which comes as absolutely no surprise. I see no point in continuing this conversation, UC.
Do you deny Paul's words in 1 Corin. 2?
Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ." -- 1 Corin. 2:12-16"Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
Do you deny that believers have "the mind of Christ?"
Do you deny Paul is speaking to "brethren," his fellow believers?
Do you deny God alone gives ears to hear and eyes to see and a new heart with which to believe?
Do you deny God has given the Holy Spirit to Christ's sheep in order for them to "know the things that are freely given to us of God?"
Do you also Paul when he tells us...
Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life." -- Titus 3:5-7"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Kosta, you seem to deny so much of the Bible I have a difficult time believing this is Orthodoxy.
It almost seems as if your answers go beyond even those of Rome which believes the Holy Spirit is only given to the church hierarchy and that God's gift of grace through faith is transmitted by the sacraments of the church.
You seem to challenge even those beliefs by questioning the very foundation of Christian revelation; by doubting the existence of the indwelling Holy Spirit; by denying that it's God who changes hearts and minds; by reading the words of God in black and white and still demanding "proof;" by blithely labeling much of holy Scripture as "gnostic."
We may all question whether or not someone is truly being led by the Holy Spirit, but we've been given pretty substantial guidelines that help us to know if someone is among Christ's sheep or not. Christ Himself told us how to identify them. He said to see if their fruit is good or evil, and part of good fruit is a God-given understanding of His word and will.
So we tests the spirits, and rightly divide the word of God, and study to show ourselves approved.
And in doing so, our good or evil fruit is made known to the world.
It's just not that difficult. Read His words and obey His words, by the will and purpose and good pleasure of God alone for His glory.
So do you believe anyone has the "mind of Christ?" And how do you know that?
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