Posted on 01/27/2008 7:56:14 PM PST by Manfred the Wonder Dawg
January 25, 2008
ESV Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
In recent days I have spent time in Lima and Sullana Peru and Mexico City and I have discovered that people by nature are the same. Man has a heart that is inclined to selfishness and idolatry. Sin abounds in the remotest parts of the land because the heart is desperately wicked. Thousands bow before statues of Mary and pray to her hoping for answers. I have seen these people stare hopelessly at Mary icons, Jesus icons, and a host of dead saints who will do nothing for them. I have talked with people who pray to the pope and say that they love him. I talked with one lady who said that she knew that Jesus was the Savior, but she loved the pope. Thousands bow before Santa Muerte (holy death angel) in hopes that she will do whatever they ask her. I have seen people bring money, burning cigarettes, beer, whiskey, chocolate, plants, and flowers to Santa Muerte in hopes of her answers. I have seen these people bowing on their knees on the concrete in the middle of public places to worship their idol. Millions of people come into the Basilica in Mexico City and pay their money, confess their sins, and stare hopelessly at relics in hope that their sins will be pardoned. In America countless thousands are chained to baseball games, football games, material possessions, and whatever else their heart of idols can produce to worship.
My heart has broken in these last weeks because the God of heaven is not honored as he ought to be honored. People worship the things that are created rather than worshiping the Creator. God has been gracious to all mankind and yet mankind has hardened their hearts against a loving God. God brings the rain on the just and unjust. God brings the beautiful sunrises and sunsets upon the just and unjust. God gives good gifts unto all and above all things he has given his Son that those who would believe in him would be saved. However, man has taken the good things of God and perverted them unto idols and turned their attention away from God. I get a feel for Jesus as he overlooked Jerusalem or Paul as he beseeched for God to save Israel. When you accept the reality of the truth of the glory of God is breaks your heart that people would turn away from the great and awesome God of heaven to serve lesser things. Moses was outraged by the golden calf, the prophets passionately preached against idolatry, Jesus was angered that the temple was changed in an idolatrous business, and Paul preached to the idolaters of Mars Hill by telling them of the unknown God.
I arrived back at home wondering how I should respond to all the idolatry that I have beheld in these last three weeks. I wondered how our church here in the states should respond to all of the idolatry in the world. What are the options? First, I suppose we could sit around and hope that people chose to get their life together and stop being idolaters. However, I do not know how that could ever happen apart from them hearing the truth. Second, I suppose we could spend a lifetime studying cultural issues and customs in hope that we could somehow learn to relate to the people of other countries. However, the bible is quite clear that all men are the same. Men are dead in sin, shaped in iniquity, and by nature are the enemies of God. Thirdly, we could pay other people or other agencies to go and do a work for us while we remain comfortably in the states. However, there is no way to insure that there will be doctrinal accuracy or integrity. If we only pay other people to take the gospel we will miss out on all of the benefits of being obedient to the mission of God. Lastly, we could seek where God would have us to do a lasting work and then invest our lives there for the glory of God. The gospel has the power to raise the dead in any culture and we must be willing to take the gospel wherever God would have us take it. It is for sure that our church cannot go to every country and reach every people group, so we must determine where God would have us work and seek to be obedient wherever that is.
It seems that some doors are opening in the Spanish speaking countries below us and perhaps God is beginning to reveal where we are to work. There are some options for work to be partnered with in Peru and there could be a couple of options in Mexico. The need is greater than I can express upon this paper for a biblical gospel to be proclaimed in Peru and Mexico. Oh, that God would glorify his great name in Peru and Mexico by using a small little church in a town that does not exist to proclaim his great gospel amongst a people who desperately need the truth.
I give thanks to the LORD for allowing me the privilege of going to these countries and broadening my horizons. The things that I have seen will be forever engraved upon my heart. I will long remember the pastors that I spent time with in Peru and I will never forget Adolfo who translated for me in Mexico. I will relish the time that I spent with Paul Washer and the others. When I think of church I will forever remember being on top of that mountain in Sullana at that church which had no electricity and no roof. I am convinced that heaven was looking down on that little church on top of that mountain and very few people on earth even know that it exist. Oh, God I pray that the things of this world will continue to grow dim and that God’s people will be caught up in his glorious presence.
Because of the truth: Pastor: J. Randall Easter II Timothy 2:19 "Our God is in heaven and does whatever He pleases."(Ps. 115:3) "He predestined us according to the good pleasure of His will."(Eph. 1:5) Those who have been saved have been saved for His glory and they are being made holy for this is the will of God. Are you being made holy? Spurgeon says, "If your religion does not make you holy it will damn you to hell."
Everything is a translation of something. So what???
The Greek says what the Latin says what the Peshitta Syriac says what the Spanish says what the German says what the English says what every other translation says --- "written in the HEBREW ...".
Would you like that translated too or is that statement clear enough??
History shows the RCC didn’t arise until the 4th century and tried mightily to subdue all churches to her doctrine. But she was unable to do so and, along the way, adopted doctrines started by those she considered heretics (such as the supposed sinlessness of Mary) because such helped the RCC control ignorant and superstitious people.
I say that simply to set up this: it’s not accurate to say the reformed churches split off from the RCC, for the church founded by Christ on Christ with the Apostles was not the RCC - but church on grace rather than works. The name “reformed” indeed arose in response to the RCC, but many of the people of the reform movement never submitted to the rule of the popes.
Amen and amen. Would that I would keep these precepts in mind more often. Well said and thanks be to our God and Lord Jesus Christ.
No thanks.
Not to worry, kosta and Mary.
Kosta can’t understand spiritual Truths unless the Lord calls, redeems, and justifies him. It’s not your fault, Kosta - God must do the work of bringing new life to one dead in sins before the one can understand - human intellect can’t bring it together.
See post #1240.
***History shows the RCC didn’t arise until the 4th century ***
Which history? The history with which I am familiar firmly places Peter and Paul within the Church; and Peter’s successors in an unbroken line to today. Do you possess a different history?
***along the way, adopted doctrines started by those she considered heretics ***
Would it be possible for you to list the heretics, the heresies, and the adopted doctrines?
***it’s not accurate to say the reformed churches split off from the RCC, for the church founded by Christ on Christ with the Apostles was not the RCC - but church on grace rather than works. The name “reformed” indeed arose in response to the RCC***
The Theses nailed up by Luther were submitted along with the term “Protestant”. The Reformed were actually in response to the novel theologies of Luther.
***but many of the people of the reform movement never submitted to the rule of the popes.***
Really. Do you have names?
***No, thanks.***
Well, it’s up to you. I only can evangelize and invite folks to accept God’s grace and His salvation. And, no, I don’t inform them of the Reformed frogmarching.
***Of course, you will notice that the KJV translates it incorrectly (imagine that!), and how one lie (oh the devil is so happy with KJV!) becomes the “truth.”***
If the KJV lie is exposed, then the English portion of the Reformed theology gets shaky, if not destroyed.
***You are more “Hebrew” in your zeal than the Jews, whose sources are actually rather objective. Your claims run contrary even to the Jewish Encyclopedia!***
The Jews know no more about their own language and history than the Greeks do. The millions of KJV Bibles stored in Catholic warehouses for 1500 years attest to the total completeness and the accuracy of their texts. After all, if English was good enough for Jesus, it ought to be good enough for you.
Why is that necessary when the Greek word "Hebraisti" and the translations by educated, learned, intellectual, credible scholars is quite clear.
Of course, you will notice that the KJV translates it incorrectly (imagine that!), and how one lie (oh the devil is so happy with KJV!) becomes the "truth."
Well then how about the learned translators of the Catholic Bible who agree with the KJV translators:
"And Pilate also wrote an inscription and put it on the cross, and there was written "Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews". Many of the Jews therefore read this inscription, because the place where Jesus was crucified was near the city, and it was written in Hebrew, in Greek, and in Latin." [The Holy Bible, The Catholic Press, Chicago, Illinous, with the approbation of His Eminence Samuel Cardinal Stritch, 1950]
Read it and weep -- and it was written in Hebrew.
***and it was written in Hebrew, in Greek, and in Latin.” ***
And this proves what?
The people that Jesus had hacked off most were the religious hierarchy. Why would they not have written in Hebrew? The inscription that also was in evidence was in Latin. Almost none of the Jewish people knew Latin.
This is grasping at straws. Jesus spoke Aramaic and probably Greek.
That's an excellent descrioption, Mark.
My sentiments exactly!
The problem that we frequently run into is that the folks we are debating are firmly convinced that 33 AD Jewish folks were completely literate in English and had the KJV tucked into their pockets
Exactly.
Thank you so much for your encouragements!
Of course I don't want to be held to everything that Cyprian or Augustine said. In fact, as a Southern Baptist, I don't want to be held to everything that Calvin or Luther said either! :) None of these men were inspired, but they all have made good contributions to Christianity. Because of this, and out of the goodness of my Christian heart, I have allowed all of them to be wrong on certain issues. :)
The OT Jehovah did certain violence to the Earth. It is striking the comparison to Jesus. Look at the Two Commandments of Jesus to the 10 Commandments and Deuteronomy. Look at the Sermon on the Mount (and the Plain). Jesus comes to us with love.
It's all about purpose. God had His purpose for doing what He did in the OT. Jesus had a very different purpose on earth when He was here. When he gave us His Commandments, it was to show us our purpose in Him. The fact that they don't all match in result is not of concern. In addition, the Commandments (and their subparts) must be taken in the generalized way they were given. When Jesus said to turn the other cheek, He did not mean to let a mugger stab you in the heart if you had the means to stop him. Jesus was talking about a WAY of living for the Christian. He was not talking in hyper-technicalities, as the Pharisees thought.
God’s doctrines v. 1.0 versus 2.0.
That's an interesting way to put it, but I'm not sure I can agree. If I may be hyper-technical :), a 2.0 is always an improvement on the 1.0. I don't think God was improving, He was completing. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the OT God that needed fixing. The OT God is exactly the same as the NT God. We just get to see more and more of Him as we page through the Scriptures. So, we get more, not better.
But you can? I suppose you can provethat you do and that I don't?
Let me guess...you have "ndwelling Spirit" and I don't. Right?
And therein lies the problem with some of these “Church communities”, they are almost gnostic in their requirement for secret knowledge of scripture.
Almost? Mark especially, and I, have been harping about this. There is a whole crop of Gnostics masqueraduing as "Christians." I suppose, each new generation succumbs to the irresistble egotistic appeal inherent in this heresy.
You are right, its a problem unique to the Bible Church Communities and to a lesser extent liturgical Protestant communities (Lutheran, Presbyterian, Anglican . . . because they are firmly grounded in a tradition).
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