Mormonism in Evangelical Voter Guide (Dobson)

The Washington Compostt ^ | January 25, 2008 | RACHEL ZOLL

[HokieMom]

An executive for one of the nation's leading evangelical groups says in a video voter guide that Mitt Romney has "acknowledged Mormonism is not a Christian faith," although the GOP presidential candidate has said he follows Jesus Christ and his church insists it is Christian.

Tom Minnery, senior vice president of government and public policy at Focus on the Family Action, said in an interview Friday that the comment was his interpretation of Romney's December "Faith in America" speech that was meant to reassure voters about his religion.

Minnery said that he spoke with the campaign after the video was posted this week and they did not contest his view or ask him to retract the statement.

"We've got a good relationship with them," he said.

Kevin Madden, a Romney spokesman, said in an e-mail that "campaign guides by advocacy groups consist of their viewpoints." Madden referred to Romney's faith speech when asked if the former Massachusetts governor considers himself Christian.

[Saundra Duffy]

Mr. & Mrs. Dobson know exactly who’s going to hell and who’s going to Heaven and if an Angel of the Lord came down and told them otherwise, they’d spit in his face.

Mitt Romney said that Jesus is his Savior and the Savior of the whole world. It is truly disgusting for a mere man to call Romney a liar on this point. It’s dangerous.

Jesus Christ died for my sins and I love Him for it. It was Heavenly Father’s Plan of Salvation and the Holy Ghost seals it in my heart. I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

[counterpunch]

No one is calling Mormons subhuman.

No, just "SubChristian" — which is the same thing as "subhuman" to someone like Dobson.
 

[restornu]

Even if they took liberties saying “Mitt said” we should try not get caught up in their spirit to invalidate.

[Uri’el-2012]

I do not believe the creator of the universe, God, would have anything negative to say to to a Christian who chose not to vote for a Mormon based on his religion alone.

You need to admit to yourself that you are voting for your own prejudice.

I do not believe that Mormons are followers of the Christ.

But Bill and Hillary presented themselves as christians.

George and Huck present themselves as christians.

I vote on issues as outlined in Elohim's Word with discernment.

b'SHEM Yah'shua

[restornu]

Huckabee’s Phone Call From God
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=2yj_okz7ZwI

[DLfromthedesert]

But you can’t stop people from voting based on religion. That clause merely states that legally they have a right to be a candidate.

[Uri’el-2012]

But you can’t stop people from voting based on religion. That clause merely states that legally they have a right to be a candidate.

What I object to is the bigoted who think they are voting because Elohim told to vote that way.

I repeat

Bill and Hillary call themselves christian.

GW Bush and Huckabee call themselves christian.

My discernment is that none of them are followers of the Christ.

They say that to fool bigots to vote for them.

b'SHEM Yah'shua

[DLfromthedesert]

Personally, I vote based on political views; not religion. I believe the voter guides from the faith based voters also have checkmarks based on issues. I don’t have a problem with that.

[Not just another dumb blonde]

I’d say this is a free country, and until you or some other nazi tells me how I can vote, I can vote for or against anyone for whatever reason, be it politics or religion. Thank you very much. And take a chill pill. I don’t have to give you an accounting on why I do or don’t vote for someone. As far as how God would want me to vote, if the Jew was a socialist I’d have to vote my values and vote against him, and God wouldn’t wipe me off the face of the earth for it. If an evangelical was teaching anything contrary to the Scriptures I wouldn’t vote for that person either. Why are Romney supporters so thin-skinned? You didn’t address this post to me, but I felt compelled to give you my answer.

[counterpunch]

Not only was the question not directed to you, but you didn’t even answer the question I asked. You seem to have completely missed the point of why I asked it. Perhaps you should have taken a look at the post I was responding too, first.

The poster I was responding too said it was quite alright to discriminate against a Mormon based solely on his religion. So I wanted to know how he answered that when the Mormon was substituted with a Jew or an evangelical, to see if and how his answered changed. Of course he was too much of a coward to respond. But you did... sort of.

But instead, you qualify your vote against the Jew for being a “socialist” and against the evangelical for “teaching” things contrary to Scripture. That wasn’t the question. Though come to think of it, it does sound like you might be talking about Huckabee specifically... but I must admit, I prefer my candidates to “campaign” on the “issues”, not “teach” the “Scriptures” either way.
But hey, that’s just me.

[HokieMom]

I think Dobson and his organization try to maintain integrity and responsibility. If they’ve inaccurately portrayed Romney’s positions and statements of faith, I hope they correct them soon. Thanks for your post.

[HokieMom]

Look what I found at the Romney website:

[Uncle Chip]

need to realize that coming together on poltics doesn't mean we are obligated to sell out our own religious beliefs or at least water it down to the point it is indistiguishable from other religions.

Bingo

If Romney is going to have any chance of getting elected President, he will need the evangelical vote, and the evangelicals will not vote for a Mormon who is so out of touch with reality that he cannot admit the truth -- that Mormonism is not Christianity.

He will have to make that statement loud and clear for all to hear. Let's see how much he wants to be President, because stating the truth on this matter will cost him his standing among a whole lot of Mormons who are living in their delusion.

[counterpunch]

Wow. That’s pretty vile.
True Republicans are above bigotry and identity politics.
Leave that for Bill and Hillary.

[ReignOfError]

“ ...no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States. ”

That's all well and good. No candidate can be blocked from running on the basis of religion, and if duly elected, cannot be refused office on that basis.

The Constitution does not govern what factors a voter may weigh when he draws the curtain and casts a vote. I think voting against someone simply because he's a Mormon is foolish, but folks have an absolute right to do a lot of things I think are foolish.

[greyfoxx39]

evangelicals will not vote for a Mormon who is so out of touch with reality that he cannot admit the truth -- that Mormonism is not Christianity.

The early leaders of the mormon church had no problem saying that mormonism is not Christianity....and their President Hinckley has stated: "We don’t criticize them for what they believe. We accept the good that comes of that understanding which they have, but we feel we having something to offer beyond what they have.”

“Nothing less than a complete apostasy from the Christian religion would warrant the establishment of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.”
-    Prophet Joseph Smith, Jr., History of the Church, v. 1, p. xl

"With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world."
-    Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 8, p. 199

"What does the Christian world know about God? Nothing... Why so far as the things of God are concerned, they are the veriest fools; they know neither God nor the things of God."
-    Prophet John Taylor, Journal of Discourses, v. 13, p. 225

"But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of Christian Churches ... But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance"
-    Apostle Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses, v. 18, p. 172

"This is not just another Church. This is not just one of a family of Christian churches. This is the Church and kingdom of God, the only true Church upon the face of the earth..."     
-    Prophet Ezra Taft Benson, 1899-1994 Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, p. 164-165

“We accept that as a statement which came to him [Joseph Smith's vision in which he was told all other religions were "abominations"], which is printed, of course, and published in his history as a statement. But we go forward with a friendly relationship, with a respect for people everywhere and with an effort to accept them as we meet them and, where opportunity exists, to talk with them and explain to them what we believe.... We don’t criticize them for what they believe. We accept the good that comes of that understanding which they have, but we feel we having something to offer beyond what they have.”
-    Prophet Gordon B. Hinckley, interview with Richard Ostling, as quoted in Mormon America, by Richard and Joan Ostling, p. 323

[Colofornian]

The "no religious test" clause of the United States Constitution is found in Article VI, section 3, and states that: “ ...no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States. ” [Xenia Street]

I keep hearing about this clause but what does it have to do with anything? No one has suggested Romney can't run because of his religion. There is no religious test for voters either and voters have every moral and legal right to vote for or against any candidate purely on the basis of their religion. [joebuck]

That's all well and good. No candidate can be blocked from running on the basis of religion, and if duly elected, cannot be refused office on that basis. The Constitution does not govern what factors a voter may weigh when he draws the curtain and casts a vote.. [Reign of Error]

JoeBuck & Reign of Error have a key point that the Constitution section you cite, Xenia, is geared @ the government & not @ the voter.

Allow me to repost something similar to what I posted over the weekend to another poster. Here’s what I said:

Ya gotta love it when folks like you & Hugh Hewitt & the absurd makers of that Article VI documentary just go around assuming others are ignorant & don't "get it" when in reality it's all you folks who somehow can't interpret correctly one simple word, "qualification."

You & these others believe that Article VI halts the crux of objections to Romney's other-worldly commitments.

Newsflash: Every person on the ballot, & even most write-in candidates, have proper "qualifications" to not be excluded from office consideration (based upon religious grounds).

Of course, millions of us have the "qualifications" to be considered a potential POTUS & shouldn't be excluded outright from a ballot because of the religion we hold! Nobody has a "Religious Ineligibility" tattoo on their forehead!

Bottom line: You confuse "qualifications" with "qualities." I focus on what voters base their votes on in the "real world": Qualities

Article VI says absolutely nothing...nada...zero...about how voters must weigh--or not weigh--the "qualities” of a candidate...So, nowhere does Article VI say that voters MUST 100% disregard character, beliefs, other-dimensionly commitments, and spiritual discernment in weighing candidates!

"Qualifications" have to do with what gets a man on a ballot. "Qualities" has to do with who gets elected.

So you & Hugh Hewitt and the Article VI doc folks raise nothing but a Straw man!!! Tell me, where oh where there's been any movement whatsoever to block anybody from any ballot?

All citizens who are not felons have the right to aspire to any office regardless of any faith, religious adherence or other-worldly commitment. But that doesn't mean you then can come along in some jack-booted way & tell somebody, "Hey, you, yeah, you, Mr. or Mrs. Individual Voter...if you dare consider the Hare Krishna aspect of this candidate...the Moonie ties of this candidate...the Satanic ties of this candidate...the Wiccan beliefs & practices of this candidate...then we will shame you, we will tell all you are an 'embarrassment' to the rest of us...that you disgust us...and we'll accuse you of attacking the beliefs of these people. What's more, we'll accuse you of being in direct opposition to the U.S. Constitution! Vote for the Hare Krishna dude or else!!!"

Wow! The MSM must have missed the "big news" that the Article VI folks somehow scooped them on...that there's been a "virtual" movement to bump Romney off of ballots everywhere...that there's been a movement to disqualify those voters who have voted for him...etc.

I object to this occasional preaching against voters based upon some unknown authority proclaiming, "Thou shalt not consider a candidate's other-dimensionly commitments!"

Some FReeper posted a December thread saying that 54% of voters wouldn't vote for an atheist. So now you accuse the majority of voters for opposing the U.S. Constitution?

You seem to accuse outright that when casting a vote...someone's Hare Krishna status or expectation of 72 virgins awaiting them post-death doesn't provide for us a glimpse of their broader perspectives.

[Uri’el-2012]

I cited the Law to remind the bigot and self-rightous so called christians
who believe that God does not want them to vote for a Mormon.

i have found nothing in Mormon writings that would suggest that they
want to behead me or tax me because I'm not a Mormon.

There are other religions which do wish to behead me because of my
belief in Yah'shua however. I would never vote for them.

[Uri’el-2012]

I think voting against someone simply because he's a Mormon is foolish, but folks have an absolute right to do a lot of things I think are foolish.

Amen !

[Colofornian]

i have found nothing in Mormon writings that would suggest that they want to behead me or tax me because I'm not a Mormon. There are other religions which do wish to behead me because of my belief in Yah'shua however. I would never vote for them.

Well, aside from the fact that the first massive 9/11 terrorist act in this country (Sept. 11, 1857) was committed by Mormons upon the Fancher wagon train, where 120-140 folks were massacred, Muslims call Christians "infidels" and Mormons call Christians "apostates." In such a labeling, where's the difference?

This is not just an "opinion" or "speculation" by some LDS past leaders, this is current, canonized, LDS "Scripture" which says by revelation that Christian sects' professing believers are ALL "corrupt"; that says Christian sects' creeds are ALL "an abomination in His sight"; and that ALL Christian churches are "wrong" & should not be joined. [Source: Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith - History, vv. 18-20...look for yourself.]

In your finding nothing in Mormon writings, apparently not only have you neglected the vast condemnations by Mormon leaders like those mentioned by Greyfoxx39 in post #56...but you've neglected the massive references where we're called the "church of the devil" (1 Nephi 14:9-10 from the Book of Mormon), or the "abominable" church (vast references available upon request in Book of Mormon & LDS' Doctrine & Covenants); their leaders from Romney's family from whom he's descended has called us the "whore" church (Orson Pratt), the "hatched in hell" church (LDS "prophet" Taylor), etc, etc,

I cited the Law to remind the bigot and self-rightous so called christians...

Well, I posted a response to the absurd Article VI folks 3 times this weekend, and every time the immediate response from the poster is to drop the argument they held and resort to an ad hominem attack. (I guess that's human nature, eh...can't stick on the "message" level...attack the messenger)