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To: Manfred the Wonder Dawg
I’ll stick the Bible for Truth

This should read...

I’ll stick the Bible my own privite interpretations of the Bible for for Truth.

Dear friend, don't you realize that the Catholic Church gave you the Bible and you have to trust Church Fathers like Saint Athanasius,Jerome and Augustine and others to give witness that Bible is the word of God?

The teachings of the Catholic Church came to you through Protestants and you discovered that the Bible is really the Word of God. thus, the Bible is not self-authenticating -we don't even have original copies of Scripture ,we have only scaps. You accepted the witness of those who told you, heard their preaching, saw their witness and life style, and accepted what they claimed. That is HOW we know the Bible is the Word of God, not by opening it off the library shelf and reading it!

Those same early Church Fathers you trust to tell you the Bible is the word of God,EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM (NOT EVEN A SINGLE EXCEPTION) believed that the Eucharist is truly Christ fully present-Body,Blood Soul and Divinity.

Lets see what Blessed Saint Athanasis had to say since he was the first to list the twenty-seven canonical books of the New Testament...

"You will see the Levites bringing the loaves and a cup of wine, and placing them on the table. So long as the prayers and invocations have not yet been made, it is mere bread and a mere cup. But when the great and wonderous prayers have been recited, then the bread becomes the body and the cup the blood of our Lord Jesus Christ....When the great prayers and holy supplications are sent up, the Word descends on the bread and the cup, and it becomes His body." Athanasius, Sermon to the Newly Baptized, PG 26, 1325 (ante A.D. 373).

Are you going to call Blessed Athanasius a lier?

If so, how is it you trust him with Bible Canon to tell you what scriptures were inspired by God?

39 posted on 01/12/2008 6:09:12 AM PST by stfassisi ("Above all gifts that Christ gives his beloved is that of overcoming self"St Francis Assisi)
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To: stfassisi

Appears you’ve been brain washed by the RCC. No such thing a Roman Catholic until the 4th century. Those people you cite - they are not those whom the Lord spoke Scriptures through. The RCC did everything in its power to keep the Bible away from folks for centuries.

The term Eucharist did not take on the mystical, Gnostic notion currently held by the RCC until the 11th century (by Gilbert of Savardin, Archbishop of Tours) - it meant what evangelicals currently call communion until the RCC perverted it. Can’t find credible (actually, any) evidence that Athanasius held this heretical view of Christ. While he is respected by many as a man of God, that would not make this or any other heresy true, just because he might have held that one view.

So called scraps of the true Scriptures have been gathered over the years and any Bible scholar can show you how the KJV and NASB are 98% or so compliant with the source documents. While apocrypha were included in the publication and binding of Bibles until the 18th century, this was done (except for the RCC) as a means to provide important books to church folk - but they were not (and are not) Scripture.

Anyone who thinks Christ is sacrificed weekly at countless RCCs is deceived. Hebrews 1:1 -3 show that Christ “sat down” after He purged our sins - that signifies “job complete”.

Hebrews 10:1 - 18 states very clearly that Christ was sacrificed ONCE and that’s all that was necessary; because He was worthy to be the Lamb of God.

10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

Below is Hebrews 7:11 - 28, which makes clear that Christ does not get sacrificed time after time.

11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
20 And inasmuch as not without an oath he was made priest:
21 (For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec:)
22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.
23 And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death:
24 But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.
25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.
26 For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;
27 Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people’s: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.
28 For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore.


43 posted on 01/12/2008 2:37:22 PM PST by Manfred the Wonder Dawg (Test ALL things, hold to that which is True.)
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To: stfassisi

Dear me, I failed to provide a key scripture for you. I ran across it while studying for Sunday. Romans 6:9 & 10 show that Christ died but once and does not die - sacrifice Himself for sin - any more.

9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

That’s really good news that anyone who truly loves the Lord and believes in Him should rejoice in - rather than pretending that Jesus is being murdered on account of sin every week in every RCC building.


44 posted on 01/12/2008 3:06:23 PM PST by Manfred the Wonder Dawg (Test ALL things, hold to that which is True.)
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To: stfassisi
Are you going to call Blessed Athanasius a lier?

Absolutely...

If so, how is it you trust him with Bible Canon to tell you what scriptures were inspired by God?

I don't

51 posted on 01/13/2008 5:37:22 AM PST by Iscool
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