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To: Texas Eagle; Coleus

‘You can’t back up your beliefs so you don’t like to be questioned.”

This is reading someone’s mind, which is breaking a Religion Forum rule for posters.


45 posted on 12/31/2007 7:55:03 PM PST by Running On Empty ((The three sorriest words:"It's too late"))
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To: Running On Empty; Aquinasfan; Iscool; Texas Eagle; FormerLib
I may have a hunch why we find persistent incomprehension for the typical forms of Catholic and Orthodox piety. I think it's because of the cultural distance between Americans of the 21st century, and the customs of the Old World and --- even moreso --- the Old Testament.

This occurred to me when my husband was telling our boys to take off their baseball caps in a restaurant. This developed into a discussion of customs and courtesy, deference, respect, and so forth. My sons were surprised to hear that Sir Thomas More, when he was the King's highest official in England, nevertheless went to a lower court and there, before the lawyers, knelt before his father every day and asked for his blessing.

My point is that for most of our history, there were forms of honor --- kneeling, bowing, curtseying, kissing --- which were customary throughout society. Kneeling to your father was not mistaken for adoration or idolatry, any more than it is now thought adoration for a diplomat to bow and kiss a sovereign's ring, or idolatry for suitor to kneel and ask for his beloved's hand in marriage.

Ancient forms of Faith are of course conservative. So at a Catholic High Mass you have bowing to everything and everybody associated with God (the altar, the Gospel-book, the Baptismal font, the deacon, the subdeacon, the choir, the people in the pews.)

In Orthodox churches you not only have all that kissing and bowing, but all the members of the congregation kneel and even prostrate before each other on Forgiveness Sunday asking for pardon for the offenses of the past year.

I find all the gestures touching. I have to. I am a human being with a heart of flesh, not stone.

"Too much," says the modern American.

But who is closer to the Old Testament culture here? I looked up "kneel(ing)" and "bow(ing)" in the good old BibleGateway Keyword Search, and found so many references it would be exhausting to list them all.

OK, pretty obviously the patriarchs, prophets, and kings knew about the commandment not to bow down and worship anything or anybody but God. But here they are bowing, kneeling, and prostrating, and God is not offended. Why?

Because the commandment clearly forbids bowing and worshipping a creature as the Creator; it does not forbid kneeling or bowing (to king, prophet, father, husband or brother) as a form of honor.

The commandment does not prohibit kneeling or bowing to give human honor. It prohibits adoration toward anyone but Almighty God.

Now here's an interesting episode:

1 Kings 2:19
When Bathsheba went to King Solomon to speak to him for Adonijah, the king stood up to meet her, bowed down to her and sat down on his throne. He had a throne brought for the king's mother, and she sat down at his right hand.

Here's the King bowing to his mother. Does that mean she's equal to God? No. It doesn't even mean she's equal to the King. It means he's pleased to honor her because of her royal dignity, her relationship as Queen Mother.

As our mindset gets further and further from traditional custom and culture, it gets harder and harder to grasp what was once the universal language of physical gesture (he salute, the tip of the hat, the bow, the genuflection, the handclasp, the curtsey, the kiss) and put each expression in its proper perspective.

It's something to ponder and appreciate. As I live, I appreciate it more and more.

65 posted on 01/01/2008 1:59:18 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o (Christus natus est! O Magnum Mysterium! Christ is born! Glorify Him!)
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