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To: Kolokotronis
It looks like they do. There's a great number in the West that think the same way.

"I suppose that disagreement arises from differing understandings of the concept of freedom, or perhaps better said, what the purpose of freedom is as it is manifest in man."

There's various claims about what freedom is. Some say the condition of freedom exists when one has nothing, no property at all. Others say, it's the ability to pick one's ruler. Logic applies though and there can only be one unique definition of freedom that applies universally. Freedom is the condition where one has and retains sovereignty over their own individual will. Note that all other definitions are corruptions of this definition. Each corruption has as it's purpose to deny individual sovereignty of will and replace it with some other sovereign, whether it be a person, or set of ideals created by someone.

"the purpose of freedom is as it is manifest in man."

Freedom is a universal concept. It not only applies to man, it applies to God also, and any other sentient, rational being. The purpose of freedom is to retain the essence of each individual. Sentient, rational beings are individuals, not extensions of other beings that have any rightful claim to exercise authority over them.

The condition of freedom is a gift each extends to others, as God extended it from the beginning. The only justifiable limits to freedom are those contained in the absolute moral code, that not only protects life, but the soveignty of will that is an essential part of each individual life. Imposition of one's will on another, except to correct, or prevent immediate rights violations, is theft of the fundamental essence of life, which rightfully belongs only to that individual. All of the moral code encompasses that, and the rights violations it prohibits are what is inherently evil.

The gift of life and soveignty of will was and is never to be revoked by God. One's decisions in this world regarding their treatment of others, especially with regard to freedom, will determine where they reside once they leave this world. There is Heaven, where freedom exists, and there is hell, where tyranny exists. The fires of hell are not of God's making, but of those that choose to exert their own will over others, which is to violate their rights.

95 posted on 12/29/2007 11:29:59 AM PST by spunkets ("Freedom is about authority", Rudy Giuliani, gun grabber)
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To: spunkets

“The fires of hell are not of God’s making,...”

Well, yes and no. The fire of God’s love burnishes those who have fulfilled their created purpose and have indeed become like Christ, having died to the self while that same fire is torment to those who have freely chosen their own will over that of God.

“...but of those that choose to exert their own will over others, which is to violate their rights.”

Certainly elevating one’s own will over that of others MIGHT be sinful, might be to prefer one’s own will over God’s. But then again, maybe not. The sin is the selfish focusing of the will on personal desires and fulfillment instead of on God to the extent that the “death” of the individual will occurs.

Here’s a way to look at free will or freedom in the baptized Christian:

“Baptism does not take away our free will or freedom of choice, but gives us the freedom no longer to be tyrannized by the devil unless we choose to be. After baptism it is in our power either to persist willingly in the practice of the commandments of Christ, into Whom we were baptized, and to advance in the path of His ordinances, or to deviate from this straight way and to fall again into the hands of our enemy, the devil.” +Symeon the New Theologian


96 posted on 12/29/2007 11:42:58 AM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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