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To: Greg F
Two comments:

Tolkien did not like allegory, and emphatically denied that LOTR was such. Any attempt to draw 1:1 correspondence between entities in the Real (Christian) world and Tolkien's fantasy will be problematic. His work was certainly informed by his Christian faith, but is not a Christian Allegory.

Only the humble Christian (Hobbit) can withstand the temptation. The lords and kings cannot.
Neither can the Hobbits. At the end, Frodo put on the Ring and claimed it as his own. Gollum then bit Frodo's finger off, tripped, and fell into the volcano. Tolkien wasn't into Pelagianism (even in an alternate universe).

16 posted on 12/17/2007 11:39:13 AM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilisation is aborting, buggering, and contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: ArrogantBustard

Make that “endure for long” rather than withstand, regarding Frodo’s ability to withstand the ring while others quickly succumb. Frodo ultimately tried to claim the ring (as a post above said, only grace allowed him to ultimately succeed in the task). I also agree that there is no 1:1 correspondence in Tolkien like you will find in Lewis’ works. That’s why it’s more fun to talk about than the allegory of Lewis’ works. Lewis’ are straight line. There is definitely allegory and a Christian worldview in the LOTR and I don’t blame Tolkein for taking himself out of that discussion . . . it would be boring and end the discussion and thought . . . and sometimes the writer is acting as an artist not a theologian or philosopher . . . and so he says more than he realizes as he produces the work.


21 posted on 12/17/2007 11:54:41 AM PST by Greg F (Duncan Hunter is a good man.)
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To: ArrogantBustard; Greg F
Tolkien did not like allegory, and emphatically denied that LOTR was such. Any attempt to draw 1:1 correspondence between entities in the Real (Christian) world and Tolkien's fantasy will be problematic. His work was certainly informed by his Christian faith, but is not a Christian Allegory.

Yes, Tolkien stated on a number of occasions that he did not write a work of allegory, but rather of myth. And the wonder of myth is that it can be interpreted in a number of ways. Perhaps the confusion comes in because his friend CS Lewis did write an allegory called The Pilgrim's Regress. Lewis also wrote a brilliant book called The Allegory of Love which revived interest in allegory from the Middle Ages, a genre that had fallen out of favor.

Neither can the Hobbits. At the end, Frodo put on the Ring and claimed it as his own. Gollum then bit Frodo's finger off, tripped, and fell into the volcano. Tolkien wasn't into Pelagianism (even in an alternate universe).

Oh yes, thank you for reminding me. I read the story so long ago, I mixed up the story and was thinking Sam threw the ring into the fire. But it was Gollum that fell in with the ring. Yes, that makes very good sense.

54 posted on 12/17/2007 2:53:59 PM PST by stripes1776 ("I will not be persuaded that any good can come from Arabia" --Petrarca)
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