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To: Ottofire

The intent counts only if one is sincere about being baptized but dies before being baptized.

If baptism is not necessary for salvation, then why did Christ say to Nicodemus,
“Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit” (John 3:5)? Why did he baptize others (John 3:26)? Why were his final words to the Apostles before he ascended into heaven that they were to baptize all nations (Mt. 28: 19)?

Baptism is proof of one’s submission to Christ. But, more importantly, it confers God’s supernatural life (grace) on the individual, forgives sins, including original sin, and makes one a member of Christ’s mystical body (the Church). While professing a belief in Christ is good, it is not sufficient for salvation except in a situation where one is facing death, such as the one that the good thief was in.


48 posted on 12/10/2007 8:28:05 AM PST by steadfastconservative
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To: steadfastconservative
Baptism is proof of one’s submission to Christ. But, more importantly, it confers God’s supernatural life (grace) on the individual, forgives sins, including original sin, and makes one a member of Christ’s mystical body (the Church). While professing a belief in Christ is good, it is not sufficient for salvation except in a situation where one is facing death, such as the one that the good thief was in.

You made that up...Except for the first sentence...

You don't become a Christian by getting wet...That is ludicrous...You become a Christian by coming to Jesus...You get filled with the Spirit by coming to Jesus...You get 'wet' to make a public testament of your turn to Jesus...

How do you guys get it so backwards...

55 posted on 12/10/2007 9:54:07 AM PST by Iscool
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To: steadfastconservative
While professing a belief in Christ is good, it is not sufficient for salvation except in a situation where one is facing death, such as the one that the good thief was in.

Here's a piece from one of the Catholic caucus threads today...

Furthermore, in accordance with the teaching of the Council of Trent on the sacraments, Baptism is not just a sign of faith but also a cause of faith.29 It produces in the baptized "interior enlightenment," and so the Byzantine liturgy is right to call it the sacrament of enlightenment, or simply enlightenment, meaning that the faith received pervades the soul and causes the veil of blindness to fall before the brightness of Christ.

This is the most outrageous thing I've ever heard...Some guys with flashy robes and funny hats tell you this stuff AND YOU SOMEHOW BELIEVE IT...I'm still waiting for the punch line...

56 posted on 12/10/2007 10:03:45 AM PST by Iscool
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To: steadfastconservative

>The intent counts only if one is sincere about being baptized but dies before being baptized.

So in all reality, the intent is necessary. Not the actual baptism, or intent would mean nothing. Therefore the intent to follow the will of Jesus, true submission to His will is the crux, not the cleansing of dirt from the flesh.

Much like Abraham’s intention to sacrifice of his only begotten son, Isaac, was what justified him, not the actual act. And you can notice that it is only that one act, not a continual series of acts, which justified him (Romans 4).


57 posted on 12/10/2007 7:42:33 PM PST by Ottofire (For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God)
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