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To: Greg F
You are trying to make a rational argument for altruism without God and now you claim not to care if you can make an argument to the thief regarding why he should not steal. You don’t care how he feels. Some athiest Sunday school teacher you would make!

That's just silly. Your argument is that people should not sin because your God says not to. Please go out and try to convince inner-city muggers of that. You wouldn't last a day. Does that mean you're wrong?

You seem to think the validity of morality depends on one's ability to convince others of it. That only work if morality is relative. Judeo-Christian morality is competing with Muslim morality and right now Muslim morality is winning by the numbers. Does that mean you are wrong about what is good and evil?

The strength of my basis for morality is that it is an absolute morality, unlike standard Judeo-Christian morality, which is basically inconsistent and internally conflicted.

79 posted on 11/28/2007 6:35:43 AM PST by ahayes ("Impenetrability! That's what I say!")
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To: ahayes
Your argument is that people should not sin because your God says not to. Please go out and try to convince inner-city muggers of that. You wouldn't last a day.

I do go out and try to convince muggers and rapists and murderers of that. It's called a prison ministry and hundreds gather and some, and hopefully many, are saved. One would be enough. Regarding not lasting a day:

With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible." —Matthew 19:26

You seem to think the validity of morality depends on one's ability to convince others of it.

We have been talking about a rational basis for altruism. With God it is rational. Without God it is not; it is solely a cost benefit analysis.

Judeo-Christian morality, which is basically inconsistent and internally conflicted.

You will need to read the Bible in full and with understanding before making that judgment with confidence. I've been where you are and made similar arguments. I've read the Bible looking for inconsistencies and conflicts; my experience is that once I accepted the basic "premise" of the Bible, which is God, I turned up none. If you read the Bible without that premise you have in many cases a jumble of words.

Romans 1:16 I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 17For in the gospel a righteousness from God is revealed, a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: "The righteous will live by faith."

If you are looking for reason in the Bible or approaching it from a secular perspective looking for wisdom, try reading Ecclesiastes, Proverbs, and then the New Testament.

84 posted on 11/28/2007 7:03:10 AM PST by Greg F (Duncan Hunter is a good man.)
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