Posted on 11/19/2007 9:57:14 AM PST by topcat54
Ohh -- you mean Him whose prophet said this about Him:
"Thus saith the LORD: I am returned unto Zion, and will dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and Jerusalem shall be called a city of truth; and the mountain of the LORD of hosts the holy mountain.... Thus saith the LORD of hosts; Behold, I will save my people from the east country, and from the west country; And I will bring them, and they shall dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God, in truth and in righteousness." [Zechariah 8]
Perhaps all the Yah'shua and chesed and other unnecessary transliterations give you a sense of superiority over us gentiles.
You seem to cherry pick your verses. Yah'shua commends us to judge :Have you never read the book of John which is all about chesed.
shalom b'shem Yah'shua
NAsbU John 7:24 "Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment."
as well as commands us.shalom b'shem Yah'shuaJust for your understanding, the command was given on G-d's Holy Feast of Sukkot.
Which is about living in temporary dwellings until we reach the promised land.
Have you never read the book of John which is all about chesed.
Which he wrote in, you know, Greek.
Yes. As Yah'shua was extending his salvation to the gentiles,
shalom b'shem Yah'shua
He instructed that his Word be written in the lingua franca of the day and for the next 300 years so all gentiles would be saved.
AMEN!
Ohh -- you mean Him whose prophet said this about Him:
"Thus saith the LORD: I am returned unto Zion, and will dwell in the midst of Jerusalem:
Exactly.
22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, 23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel. (Hebrews 12)All you need to do is read the Old in the light of the New, and Christ’s sacrifice for His people Israel, and it will all make sense.
9 But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; 10 who once were not a people but are now the people of God, who had not obtained mercy but now have obtained mercy. (1 Peter 2)Dispensationalism will not get you to the truth.
There you go again. Do you mean lovingkindness? Chesed is not in my Greek.
You seem to cherry pick your verses.
The feeling is mutual.
Yah'shua commends us to judge :
Then I hope you will apply the same standard to you and your futurist friends.
All you need to do is read the Old in the light of the New, and Christ’s sacrifice for His people Israel, and it will all make sense.
I had one on FR (I can dig it up if I have to) flat out tell me that the way Jesus, the gospel writers, Paul, etc. (the writers of the NT) interpreted scripture didn't matter, that what mattered was how the original recipients would have interpreted the scripture.
[shakes head sadly]
What was Jesus teaching His people between resurrection and ascension? How the scriptures pointed to Him, or the schedule for him whuppin' the Romans and setting up the earthly kingdom?
9 But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; 10 who once were not a people but are now the people of God, who had not obtained mercy but now have obtained mercy. (1 Peter 2)
OT language about Israel applied directly to the Christian ekklesia.
Give me a break topcat! Take your straw man and kick it elsewhere.
Effectively what you are saying when you dismiss God’s future for national Israel that God was LYING when He said He would bring Israel back into the land again and they would never again be cast out. You are saying that just because the Jews have come from every nation from every direction on earth that this in no way fulfills Bible prophecy. You ignore any clarifications, such as while the dry bones are coming together as Ezekiel 37 predicted, that there is still some work to be done until they are made fully acceptable in Christ before the Lord. We see this in Romans 11. We see this in Zechariah 12-14. However, those of your particular point of view might as well just cut the book of Zechariah OUT of your Bible. Apparently dispensationalists and Jews are the only ones who have any use for it anyway. This has been my take-away from what conversations we, and others, have had on the end-times threads. There is no discussing these issues with you or several others. (And yes, you are one of the most frustrating people to talk to because you are almost ALWAYS negative and almost never willing to listen to what is actually being said). Rather than have a rational discussion where we can agree to disagree, it is a game of demean the dispies, followed by a pinging of the non-dispy choir to pat folks on the back for what a great job they did at showing those dispies. In the mean time, our Savior weeps!
On the one hand, you have a group that is watching and waiting. They see a future where evil will be definitely dealt with. It is a future that includes a 7 year period of tribulation after which Christ will judge the nations. We see a future for us; and, we rejoice that though she is currently blinded, ALL of that remnant of Israel that God has ordained to salvation will be saved. We see a harmony between Zechariah, Daniel, Ezekiel, Revelation and the gospels. For our honest treatment of scripture we are demeaned and treated like heretics.
Arguing the case on this forum isn’t worth my time because those who want to dispute have ZERO interest in discussing anything. They would rather criticize and throw up men. And, sad thing is, I doubt that until the trumpet sounds it will ever change.
Take your little party elsewhere. I won’t be joining in. This discussion profits nobody. It just serves to build up the pride of the prideful and makes us a mockery before the world.
We’re trying to give you a break by showing you the error of the dispensational system. Christ is the focus of all of history, not national Israel, especially not the modern secular state of the 20th/21st century.
16 Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, "And to seeds," as of many, but as of one, "And to your Seed," who is Christ. … 26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. (Gal. 3)
The dispensationalist says, "No, Paul you are wrong. It is to seeds, national Israel, and we know exactly where they live."
Apparently dispensationalists and Jews are the only ones who have any use for it anyway.
Exactly. Because you share the same problem as unbelieving Jews; they do not see Christ as the center of all the prophecies. I’m glad that one of you has finally admitted it. Would you go so far as to agree with dispensationalist/Zionist John Hagee that Jesus did not come as the Messiah of the Jews? That’s what he gets after slicing and dicing the Bible dispensationally.
Take your little party elsewhere. I won’t be joining in.
Fine by me. You were given the opportunity to make your case.
More straw men Topcat. More straw men.
Amen, and amen.
Is that the best you can do? At least let us know exactly what constitutes a straw man in your mind.
We can’t help you see your error unless you are more specific.
Get the mote out of your own eye sister.
I’m curious, why did you come over to this thread?
Dispensationalism will not get you to the truth.
It won't???? Atleast it won't mislead us like Preterism does.
Perhaps you can tell us just exactly who this holy nation [singular] is here from your 1 Peter 2 quote above??? Remembering of course that Peter was writing to the "sojourners" [Jews] scattered throughout Asia Minor, and is citing Exodus 19:6 and Deuteronomy 7:6.
It can't be the Church because the Church is made up of many nations aka Gentiles [plural] not just one [holy nation].
Maybe we have solved the mystery of just what nation Jesus was referring to here:
"The kingdom of God shall be taken from you and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits of it." [Mt 21:43]
It will be this nation returned from its 2000 year Diaspora.
No, you’re not.
Exactly.
22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, 23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel. (Hebrews 12)
You need to read more carefully. That says "the heavenly Jerusalem" which is different from this Jerusalem:
"Thus saith the LORD: I am returned unto Zion, and will dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and Jerusalem shall be called a city of truth; and the mountain of the LORD of hosts the holy mountain.... Thus saith the LORD of hosts; Behold, I will save my people from the east country, and from the west country; And I will bring them, and they shall dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God, in truth and in righteousness." [Zechariah 8]
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