Posted on 11/09/2007 10:33:48 AM PST by Frank Sheed
I believe that you may not fully comprehend that approval by those on this board of the actions of an Archbishop does not mean happiness in the sanction of any priest. The Archbishop took action as he is obliged to do as a spiritual descendent of the Apostles. He has pledged by oath to Almighty God to care for the souls of perhaps a million people and a heavy weight falls upon him if he fails to do that--a weight I would never want.
Nobody wishes to see a priest removed, and pray God, he will be restored very soon. His sanction was to be given over for a time for reflection. By my understanding, and from reading the news from the USCCB conference, he will return to service once he ascents to obedience in liturgical matters fully.
You may forget that the Archbishop too is a priest! He too has all the responsibility of the priests who follow him according to the way Christ instituted His Church. You make approval of his action anathema, it seems. We know he took this action with a heavy heart; as one who is a father to souls, he MUST!
The view expressed here by all, I believe, is that of St. Catherine of Siena, who wrote this letter to the Pope:
Letter to Gregory XI
In the name of Jesus Christ crucified and of sweet Mary: Most holy and most reverend my father in Christ Jesus: I Catherine your poor unworthy daughter, servant and slave of the servants of Christ, write to you in His precious blood; with desire to see you a good shepherd. For I reflect, sweet my father, that the wolf is carrying away your sheep, and there is no one found to succor them. So I hasten to you, our father and our shepherd, begging you on behalf of Christ crucified to learn from Him, who with such fire of love gave Himself to the shameful death of the most holy cross, how to rescue that lost sheep, the human race, from the hands of the demons; because through man's rebellion against God they were holding him for their own possession.
Then comes the Infinite Goodness of God, and sees the evil state and the loss and the ruin of these sheep, and sees that they cannot be won back to Him by wrath or war. So, notwithstanding they have wronged Him-for man deserves an infinite penalty for his disobedient rebellion against God-the Highest and Eternal Wisdom will not do this, but finds an attractive way, the gentlest and most loving possible to find. For it sees that the heart of man is in no way so drawn as by love, because he was created by love. This seems to be the reason why he loves so much: he was created by nothing but love, both his soul and his body. For by love God created him in His Image and Likeness, and by love his father and mother gave him substance, conceiving and bearing a son.
God, therefore, seeing that man is so ready to love, throws the book of love straight at him, giving him the Word, His Only-Begotten Son, who takes our humanity to make a great peace. But justice wills that vengeance should be wrought for the wrong that has been done to God: so comes Divine Mercy and unspeakable Charity, and to satisfy justice and mercy condemns His Son to death, having clothed him in our humanity, that is, in the clay of Adam who sinned. So by His death the wrath of the Father is pacified, having wrought justice on the person of His son: so He has satisfied justice and has satisfied mercy, releasing the human race from the hands of demons. This sweet Word jousted with His arms upon the wood of the most holy Cross, death fighting a tournament with life and life with death: so that by His death He destroyed our death, and to give us life He sacrificed the life of His body. So then with love He has drawn us to Him, and has overcome our malice with His benignity, in so much that every heart should be drawn to Him: since greater love one cannot show-and this He himself said-than to give one's life for one's friend. And if He commended the love which gives one's life for one's friend, what then shall we say of that most burning and perfect love which gave its life for its foe? For we through sin had become foes of God. Oh, sweet and loving Word, who with love hast found Thy flock once more, and with love hast given Thy life for them, and hast brought them back to Thy fold, restoring to them the Grace which they had lost!
Holiest sweet father of mine, I see no other way for us and no other aid to winning back your sheep, which have left the fold of Holy Church in rebellion, not obedient nor submissive to you, their father. I pray you therefore, in the name of Christ crucified, and I will that you do me this grace, to overcome their malice with your benignity. Yours we are, father! I know and realize that they all feel that they have done wrong; but although they have no excuse for their crimes, nevertheless it seemed to them that they could not do differently, because of the many sufferings and injustices and iniquitous things they have endured from bad shepherds and governors. For they have breathed the stench of the lives of many rulers whom you know yourself to be incarnate demons, and fallen into terrible fears, so that they did like Pilate, who not to lose his authority killed Christ; so did they, for not to lose their state, they maltreated you. I ask you then, father, to show them mercy. Do not regard the ignorance and pride of your sons, but with the food of love and your benignity inflict such mild discipline and benign reproof as shall satisfy your Holiness and restore peace to us miserable children who have done wrong.
I tell you, sweet Christ on earth, on behalf of Christ in Heaven, that if you do this, without strife or tempest, they will all come grieving for the wrong they have done, and lay their heads on your bosom. Then you will rejoice, and we shall rejoice, because by love you have restored the sheep to the fold of Holy Church. And then, sweet my father, you will fulfill your holy desire and the will of God by starting the holy Crusade, which I summon you in his name to do swiftly and without negligence. They will turn to it with great eagerness; they are ready to give their lives for Christ. Ah me, God, sweet Love! Raise swiftly, father, the banner of the most holy Cross and you will see the wolves become lambs. Peace, peace, peace, that war may not delay that happy time!
But if you will wreak vengeance and justice, inflict them on me, poor wretch, and assign me any pain and torment that may please you, even death. I believe that through the foulness of my iniquities many evils have occurred, and many misfortunes and discords. On me then, your poor daughter, take any vengeance that you will. Ah me, father, I die of grief and cannot die! Come, come, and resist no more the will of God that calls you; the hungry sheep await your coming to hold and possess the place of your predecessor and Champion, Apostle Peter. For you, as the Vicar of Christ, should abide in your own place. Come, then, come, and delay no more; and comfort you, and fear not anything that might happen, since God will be with you. I ask humbly your benediction for me and all my sons; and I beg you to pardon my presumption. I say no more. Remain in the holy and sweet grace of God-Sweet Jesus, Jesus Love.
(Letters of Saint Catherine of Siena, translated by Vida D. Scudder. 1906.)
For a Bishop to stand against the tide of Modernism today, is to take the side of St. Catherine. And the man--the priest or Bishop--who does so takes a heavy price for going against the forces of Modernity as Archbishop Burke and many others have seen so often. And, I must say in closing, that I pray every day for all priests and all Bishops and our Holy Father who are being sifted like chaff just as Christ predicted at His Last Supper. Jesus prayed for unity and He entrusted that role to Peter and to his successors. Archbishop O'Brien is in a direct lineage to those who sat at that very table and has given his pledge to the maintenance of Unity.
In Christ,
Frank
It isn’t a matter of being an expert in liturgy. And no one here is telling a priest or bishop what to do.
What has happened is that a priest has become used to defying some rules—rules which no doubt originated from a genuine need to applied in order to keep the liturgy from being hi-jacked.
Someone in a previous post here (I don’t have the time to look for it right now) wrote that the Mass doesn’t belong to the priest—it’s not his private domain to do as he wishes. That is absolutely true.
In my day I have seen some pretty scandalous things done at Masses in which the presiding priest thought he “owned” the Mass. Very many people in the pews knew that this was taking place and many spoke to the offending priests themselves, while others wrote to the bishop. In that case, the lay people were actually doing their job.
Also, at every Mass the priest expresses his fidelity and union with the bishop. If any priest is defying his bishop, he defies this expression of fidelity.
The bishop is accountable before God for the priests and people under his care. A good bishop does his job.
I’m glad to see that Bishop O’Brien is acting like a bishop, and I know I’m not alone in being glad about it.
Sad indeed. Too bad the "priest of God" (we'll take your word for it) didn't follow the instructions of the "Bishop of God" whose sworn servant he is. Your clear implication is that the Bishop does not have the spiritual well being of his flock at heart and has abandoned them. That's a disgraceful and utterly baseless accusation. Quite the reverse. Removing the wolf from the sheep fold might at first glance appear to have reduced the numbers in the sheep enclosure. However, in the longer term, the benefits to the health of the sheep become obvious.
No one is served by ignorance; but neither is anyone served by slavish adherence to rules
Nice spin. It's called obedience. It's one of the vows a priest takes. Voluntarily. It's one of the theological virtues. Jesus was obedient unto death, as Scripture tells us. The opposite is disobedience.
.....especially rules that bind men and women to follow more rules for the sake of testing one’s obedience and not to preserve the dignity, sanctity or divinity of God.
Is that your opinion of why Canon Law exists? Just to jerk us around? The Church is our mother and its rules are for our spiritual good. Don't try to separate the Church from Canon Law. It's a tired and by now completely transparent scam. The Mass does not belong to Fr. Martin or you or anyone else, to do with as he/you/they please. I'll take the Church's laws over yours, any day. It's precisely liturgical improvisation and innovation which has caused shipwreck in the faith to so many. Have you learned nothing from the circus of the past 40 years?
Did O’Brien’s action that day save a life? Did it feed the hungry or clothe the naked? Did any part of his “discipline” house a homeless man or find a job for a father or mother looking for work? I have a suspicion that it did none of these.
Ad I have a suspicion that you know nothing of the good bishop's charity to the marginalized. He did far more than feed the hungry. Man does not live by bread alone and O'Brien safeguarded the most sacred treasure of a Catholic; the Blessed Sacrament. Insisting on the correct celebration of the unbloody sacrifice of Calvary is not a disqualification from helping the suffering. It's not an either/or situation. Both form part of a bishop's ministry.
Perhaps O’Brien does seek to fulfill God’s laws of charity and selfless giving; but this rule following is not serving the laws of charity.
Sez who? You?
Here's a saying you can take to the bank. We're sick, that's right, sick, of self-appointed liturgists monkeying with the Mass. It doesn't belong to you, OK?
In the end, it is only a rule with subjective interpretations attached to it, yours included and the others who think the archbishop “rocks.”
Reality check; your opinion on this issue is subjective. The archbishop is entrusted by the Church with the spiritual care of souls. There is nothing subjective about that, nor about the laws of the Church which govern who may and may not receive Communion. You may not like them but that doesn't mean they're subjective.
As to whether this woman believes in the Blessed Sacrament or not can scarcely be disputed. What other reason would she have for receiving communion?
So anyone who presents him or herself for Communion must therefore "believe" indisputably in the Blessed Sacrament? Like Clinton? Please. Who knows what this woman believes. Those who earnestly believe in the reality of the Real Presence will follow that belief into the Church.
In reality, the parishioners were ignored; their spiritual well being was tossed aside and trampled on in a cavalier and thoughtless way!! Where in the world are they going to find another priest to serve THREE parishes? Was Father Martin’s infraction so disgusting that the parishioners are now deprived of any sacramental succor?
This from hyperbole central.
Sounds like you don't believe in the Real Presence. We're talking about handing out the true Body and Blood of Jesus Christ (I'll use some of your theatrical language now) in a most careless, offhand and irreverent manner. Here's a man blessed with powers which few other men possess, to convert bread and wine into the sacred species and he tramples it under foot, profanes it and uses it as little more than a circus prop. That's not something I'd want to try and explain when I stand before God and neither does the good bishop.
Ahhhhh...that was fun!!
Oh and don't worry about who will replace Fr. Martin. The Archbishop will take care of that. Trust me. But your concern is appreciated.
What cost the slavish adherence to rules to the laity (again, us worthless laity, right)? I think in the light of eternity, this was petty and smells of hatefulness. A man who is concerned about the people would not have removed a priest in this time of shortage. My pastor here is serving two parishes full time and a third part time. He has a school with three campuses and an overworked staff. Priests are overstretched, overworked and underappreciated.
The only "hatefulness" which I see, is coming from you and is directed towards the bishop. For doing his episcopal duty. You've had it too good for too long my friend. Forty years has ingrained disobedience in too many and it's come to be considered as some sort of "right". Now that some episcopal fortitude is starting to appear, the whining and crying starts. Hip-hip hooray!! It's long overdue. The Fr. Martins of this world have done as they pleased. The long suffering pew dweller has endured goofy liturgies, dancing nuns, heretical homilies, irreverent and sacrilegious Communions, sodomizing clergy who've bled the Church dry and you have the nerve to whine about "authority"?
You're a comedian. It's the absence of fatherly authority which has led us to this complete shambles. It's the ignoring of those hated "rules" which has allowed the homosexual clique to take over seminaries and dioceses and bring untold scandal to the Church. I was going to answer the rest of your post but now can't be bothered. Go and cry your crocodile tears elsewhere. Fr. Martin will be welcomed back when he "gets it".
The Catholic Church will once more glow in splendor sans those who have become infused with the devil's pride and think rules don't apply to them.
Back in the 60’s, priests did NOT disobey the Church teachings like they do today.....that’s why this is so foreign....and Bishops didn’t have to REMOVE priests very often. We are all pretty good Catholics here on FR....don’t go away.
The answer to your question about when we became experts is "since Vatican II", of course. Duh!! Didn't you get the memo? We're now "empowered", to use modernist speak, to take on "vital", "dynamic" leadership roles in the Church. Many laity have already done it. Don't you see them swarming over the altar at Mass, telling Father how to run the parish, which hymns to sing etc?
Naturally, it's only when the more traditionally inclined among us complain about some of these shenanigans that objections are raised about our expertise in liturgical matters. There never seem to be any questions raised about the credentials of those who want to include prayers to Gaia or other New Age mumbo jumbo in the sacred ceremonies.
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