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To: annalex; ears_to_hear; wmfights
FK: "Does Catholic Christianity teach salvation by grace alone through faith, and not by works?"

Of course not, but neither does St. Paul. Paul teaches that salvation does not come by works of obligation or reward, but the works of self-denial and love are or primary importance, and we teach accordingly.

I don't see where Paul makes any such distinction. Sometimes the phrase "works of the Law" is used, but that only helps my position. :)

If for you salvation is grace plus works, then does not one get REWARDED with entry into Heaven based partially on his works? IOW, one does works of love, but clearly there is a reward waiting for him later. That is work for reward. Further:

Rom 11:6 : And if by grace, then it is no longer by works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.

The context of this can be none other than many thought keeping the works of the Law was how to get into Heaven. Those are works of love. No one thought doing works for pay was the way into Heaven, so the "no longer" would not apply, yet it's there. Paul was definitely teaching Sola Fide/Gratia.

But "Paulines" you are not; we are.

It was actually kind of funny because as I was reading this in the other thread in various "high-five" posts, I was thinking to myself, "what's wrong with being a Pauline if it just means following what Paul says?" :) I understand there is a difference in interpretation, but I would think there would be an equal difference in other parts of scripture as well.

54 posted on 11/12/2007 1:55:10 PM PST by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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To: Forest Keeper; ears_to_hear; wmfights
The context of this can be none other than many thought keeping the works of the Law was how to get into Heaven.

True. This is what St. Paul corrects: purportedly salvific nature of obedience to law.

Those are works of love

No. St. Paul ends everty letter of his with exhortations to works of love; he also says

2 ... if I should have prophecy and should know all mysteries, and all knowledge, and if I should have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. 3 And if I should distribute all my goods to feed the poor, and if I should deliver my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

...

13 And now there remain faith, hope, and charity, these three: but the greatest of these is charity. (1 Cor 13)

Faith alone is not salvific and sacrifice alone is not salvific. Faith is important, but works of love are "the greatest".
55 posted on 11/12/2007 2:14:29 PM PST by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea-Luke17.php)
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To: Forest Keeper
does not one get REWARDED with entry into Heaven based partially on his works

Of course not. It's not as if Paul would ever write anything like this:

But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For there is no partiality with God.

56 posted on 11/12/2007 2:14:44 PM PST by Campion
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